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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Belen" data-source="post: 917676" data-attributes="member: 1405">IME, fighters always get a chance to shine.  I really do not see people's trouble with magic as mages I have seen in games have not been overpowering, especially if a DM does his homework.Just about every opponent I throw at the characters during mid to high level has some type of SR, or dare I say it, mages of their own.  The best way to counter magic is with magic.  Just because a lot of GMs find it hard to throw more than just melee monsters at the party does not mean that magic is overpowering.I truly feel sorry for those people who have to deal with munchie mages, but neutering magic is not the best way to go.For instance, I recently tracked down my first GM.  We had fallen out of touch since those early days of gaming.  While talking, he made the point that people take their characters too seriously.  Dying, whether by heroism or tragedy, used to be a fun part of the game.  Some of my fondest memories come from characters that bit the dust, such as my bard who was frozen by a elder white wyrm, then falling and shattering.With the disappearance of save or die, then we take away one of the threats inherent in playing high level characters.  Part of the excitement of low level is the threat of death with every encounter.  That threat is somewhat alleviated at high level EXCEPT for save or die spells. After all, what fun would we have if that 20th level fighter was walking across a narrow stone bridge 300 feet high, fell, and then calming took the 30d10 and scaled the cliff.  Fear is a GOOD part of the game.  If the game is so neutered that a 20th level PC has no fear of dying, then what's the point?!Alternately, if the fighter knows that a disintegrate will only do 20d6, then I can readily see said fighter charging the wizard and one-rounding him.Yes, a wizard can fly with improved invisibility, but how often do fights really happen outside when the wizard has every advantage?  Most BBEG fights IME seem to take place in doors where a wizard has limited space to move.  And every fighter I have met either has a see invis item, or has had that permanently cast upon themselves, so the biggest argument, that of a flying, invisible, caster, is really bunk.  It make no sense when fighters have ranged weapons and items to puncture invis.If you all want to neuter the game and take the fear out of combat away, then play d20 Smurfs.Let us have the fear wrenching action.</blockquote>

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