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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 919464" data-attributes="member: 2486">Well, for an 11th level wizard, I'd say that 2 6th level spells is probably pretty close to 20% of his resources.  If the lich wins initiative, the wizard will be spending a lot more. Nerfed. Nerfed. Having seen your exchange with E_B, I'd add two points.1. Your wizard is using a *lot* of supplements2. You forgot to account for secondary targets taking half damage (even empowered, 12d6 is unlikely to take out a 14th level wiz) Nerfed. Okay.  Increase damage by average of 4 points.  Not a huge difference. Assessing the overall utility of a spell by taking the *weakest*.  That's right- the weakest.  Not 'weak', not 'quite weak', but the weakest.  No other major DnD opponents has a Fort save as poor as a lich for its CR. I think this is the crux of the problem.  The most vocal DnD lobby are those who are the most 'serious' gamers (since they're the ones discussing spells for hours on message boards <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />).  WotC therefore react to this vocal lobby, who by virtue of being 'serious' gamers, tend to possess supplements.  WotC therefore modify DnD based on a disproportionate and unrepresentative feedback.  Core rules should not be 'backwardly-compatible' to assume people use supplements.  They should be stand-alone, and the *supplements* should be toned down, not the core rules.  That's utterly wrong-headed. Er...so your wizard who has spent four feats pumping out his ability to do Disintegrate (Spell Focus, GSF, WF(Ray), PBS) is not going to either use Disintegrate or be somehow hampered from soaking so many resources into the primary aim of maximising that spell.  Opportunity cost, d00d. Nonsense, and double-nonsense with melee brutes.  A melee brute cannot take down a melee brute in one round unless it's a smacked-out build, has Power Critical with a huge multiplier weapon or uses a CDG.  By 13th level, any self-respecting melee brute should have coming close to 130 hit points, far more than a 13th level tank can dish out in one round. Sure, if the fighters are going to sit there and not do much.  The difference between the wizard and the held victim is that given the new hold, it will wear off reasonably quickly (or be dispelled or whatever).  Then the fighters can go back on the offensive.  PC fighters are not to attack as a human shield for the wizard on a permanent basis, even if they are happy to do it for a held victim for a round or so. Do I detect a snipe <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ?</blockquote>

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