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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8431597" data-attributes="member: 5889">So I was pondering the old arguments of casters vs martials. Fundamentally the concern about casters is really more the concern about magic. Magic can "do anything", and so a creature tied to the laws of reality can never hope to compete. That's the fundamental "issue". So before I dug any more deeply in that debate, I wanted to understand what does 5e magic actually "do"? I wanted to understand where magic works "within the rules" versus where it "breaks the bank". And so I've attempted to break down all of the various 5e spells into categories of how magic works. hehe you could argue I almost have an "ars magica" type breakdown here.First we have two fundamental "buckets" of magic.Manipulation - The ability to "adjust", to increase or decrease. Most of this falls within the "rules", aka there are often non-magical ways they could be done, but can become system breaking when taken to its extremes.Destruction / Conjuration: This is the ability to take out or create something, such as a totally new ability. This is normally abilities beyond standard reality, and is most often the purview of magic alone.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Essence - "Life Force", often hitpoints in the game but can also refer to things without a technical hitpoint pool. Temporary hitpoints would also fall under this.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation - Increasing or decreasing hitpoints. Standard healing and damage spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D/C - It might be tempting to put spells like Power Word Kill here, but those are actually just more extreme forms of manipulation. This category is for things like raise dead, animate dead, animate objects, or dispel magic..... things that can literally create an animating force or that can snuff out things that don't technically have hitpoints. </li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Knowledge / Perception - Knowing things and seeing things through senses.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation - Comprehend Languages is an example, languages can be learned normally this simply gives you access to that. Many illusions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D / C - Most scrying and divination spells go here, giving you access to information that you could not know normally. Modify Memory is an edge case, you could see that as extreme manipulation or as D/C. Also the ability for inanimate traps to "only trigger when XYZ creature's move past" is a good example of knowledge creation. </li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Die - Altering standard probability.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation - Advantage and Disadvantage or die rerolls. Foresight is an example here. Energy resistance is normally another. Anything that provides a final result that could have been gotten by the standard die roll is a good one here.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D / C - Spells that add/subtract bonuses beyond the normal die range, or provide a roll when normally one would not exist. Bless is an example. Invulnerability is another (effectively turning all damage results -> 0. That's different than the half damage of resistance, which in most cases is a die result that would have been possible normally). </li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Will - A creature's mind, personality, and ability to make decisions.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation - Dominate Person is a classic example, or confusion. Things that could be explained by "mental maladies" are good examples here.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D / C - Magic Jar is an example, where the personality of the creature is completely subsumed. </li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Creature - Effecting a creature's abilities, powers to act, and move through the world. A "broad" category.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation - Haste is an example. Even the powerful Time Stop is just multiplying abilities a creature can normally do. Even Simulacrum is an example here (though that spell would combine many traits).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D / C - Alter Person, Teleport - Not because of the distance (that's just manipulation to an extreme) but the ability to go places you couldn't possibly go normally. Fly, Plane Shift. </li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Environment - Ability to change the landscape or project force upon the landscape. Often different than creatures due to less resistance.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation - The lowly unseen servant and mage hand are examples, as is continual flame. Stone Shape or Fabricate are stronger examples.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D / C - Wall of Force is an example, or Demi plane.</li> </ul></li> </ul>So that's my list. Let me know what you think while I review it and consider tweaks. Do I need more categories, fewer....does this seem a "reasonable" breakdown of magic?Once finalized I will use this list to then take a look at martials.</blockquote>

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