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Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components
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<blockquote data-quote="Gammadoodler" data-source="post: 8487723" data-attributes="member: 6914290"><p>I'm legitimately unsure what your gear assumptions are. A CR 1/8 guard has a 16 AC and 11 HP and a +3 tohit. A level 20 fighter has +11 tohit for 1d8+5 and a capped AC of 20 (with a shield) absent magical gear.</p><p></p><p>So thats getting hit on a 17 or higher, and hitting on a 5 or higher (and only maybe getting a kill on that hit). I don't have an issue with including magical gear exactly, but there is a range of power in those that gets difficult to model without being specific, and which has nothing to do with fighter class features beyond basic armor proficiency.</p><p></p><p>One assumption you did state that is <strong><em>extremely</em></strong> suspect is that only 8 people in the opposing force can attack at a time. This means our opposition is using zero ranged weaponry, shot or thrown. A spear is a simple weapon that can be thrown with a 20/60 range increment. I believe that is a 9×9 grid (80 enemies..72 over your assumptions) around the fighter that could potentially attack in a round. Cut it to say half and you've got what 36 incremental attacks per round assuming none of them have multiattack and there is no movement to rotate additional enemies into range? And we don't even mention the entire rest of the army that has readied attacks for when the fighter gets in range or what happens if you start handing out shortbows and slings (also simple weapons).</p><p></p><p>Basically we're looking at a result that is orders of magnitude less favorable than you've proposed. Maybe they aren't dead in one round (unless you start handing out shortbows), but they almost certainly don't make it out of round 5.</p><p></p><p>Measured another way..our mighty fantasy warrior, at the pinnacle of martial prowess, can hold off an army composed solely of CR 1/8 creatures...for roughly the same amount of time it takes to reheat a slice of pizza in the microwave..</p><p></p><p>And that is not even getting into how much more effective an equivalent eldritch Knight with access to tools like greater invisibility, shield, wall of flame, etc. would be in the same scenario.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gammadoodler, post: 8487723, member: 6914290"] I'm legitimately unsure what your gear assumptions are. A CR 1/8 guard has a 16 AC and 11 HP and a +3 tohit. A level 20 fighter has +11 tohit for 1d8+5 and a capped AC of 20 (with a shield) absent magical gear. So thats getting hit on a 17 or higher, and hitting on a 5 or higher (and only maybe getting a kill on that hit). I don't have an issue with including magical gear exactly, but there is a range of power in those that gets difficult to model without being specific, and which has nothing to do with fighter class features beyond basic armor proficiency. One assumption you did state that is [B][I]extremely[/I][/B] suspect is that only 8 people in the opposing force can attack at a time. This means our opposition is using zero ranged weaponry, shot or thrown. A spear is a simple weapon that can be thrown with a 20/60 range increment. I believe that is a 9×9 grid (80 enemies..72 over your assumptions) around the fighter that could potentially attack in a round. Cut it to say half and you've got what 36 incremental attacks per round assuming none of them have multiattack and there is no movement to rotate additional enemies into range? And we don't even mention the entire rest of the army that has readied attacks for when the fighter gets in range or what happens if you start handing out shortbows and slings (also simple weapons). Basically we're looking at a result that is orders of magnitude less favorable than you've proposed. Maybe they aren't dead in one round (unless you start handing out shortbows), but they almost certainly don't make it out of round 5. Measured another way..our mighty fantasy warrior, at the pinnacle of martial prowess, can hold off an army composed solely of CR 1/8 creatures...for roughly the same amount of time it takes to reheat a slice of pizza in the microwave.. And that is not even getting into how much more effective an equivalent eldritch Knight with access to tools like greater invisibility, shield, wall of flame, etc. would be in the same scenario. [/QUOTE]
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