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<blockquote data-quote="TheOneGargoyle" data-source="post: 8488695" data-attributes="member: 6924207">It isn't.&nbsp; It's just not what everyone wants to be their character concept for every character they ever play.&nbsp; It really is this simple.I know, I know, it seems strange to me that not every player wants every character they ever play to be magic.&nbsp; Personally, I can't understand WHY they would want that.&nbsp; But they do.I have players I have played with for decades that really enjoy the idea of playing explicitly non-magical character concepts.&nbsp; They love the idea that these characters are awesome in and of themselves, in some sense complete &amp; independent without needing the &quot;crutch&quot; of being magical rainbow unicorns to prop them up.&nbsp; They would violently object to anyone trying to change their character concept to say &quot;Martials are magic&quot; and would likely not want to play that character any more, and maybe the game/setting either.&nbsp; It's just not what they want to play.&nbsp; And that should be ok.Utterly baffling to me, but still, it should be fine for them to choose &amp; prefer this.&nbsp; And the game and the campaign setting should support them.&nbsp; And my job as the DM (I'm almost always the DM) is to run a game where they can play the character they want to play and have fun doing it.&nbsp; In fact, my guideline is that I try to make them look good, or even better, to make them look awesome.&nbsp; Magic or no magic.&nbsp; So, again, I believe that the only two criteria is 1) The Rule of Cool, and 2) does it fit with their char concept ?&nbsp; If yes to both of those, go nuts!I agree with your premise but not your conclusion.&nbsp; Most of our traditional stories are low level, and from what I hear, most game campaigns are low level too.&nbsp; So I don't think there's a big dissonance there, hence I don't believe this is the &quot;real issue&quot;.To me the real issue is that it's easy to imagine what epic level magic is like, but it's a lot harder (ie takes more work on the part of the DM and the players) to imagine what equivalent level epic non-magic is like.&nbsp; Critical word in that sentence is &quot;equivalent&quot;.&nbsp; Just b/c something takes more work, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheOneGargoyle, post: 8488695, member: 6924207"] It isn't. It's just not what everyone wants to be their character concept for every character they ever play. It really is this simple. I know, I know, it seems strange to me that not every player wants every character they ever play to be magic. Personally, I can't understand [I]WHY[/I] they would want that. But they do. I have players I have played with for decades that really enjoy the idea of playing explicitly non-magical character concepts. They love the idea that these characters are awesome in and of themselves, in some sense complete & independent without needing the "crutch" of being magical rainbow unicorns to prop them up. They would violently object to anyone trying to change their character concept to say "Martials [I]are[/I] magic" and would likely not want to play that character any more, and maybe the game/setting either. It's just not what they want to play. And that should be ok. Utterly baffling to me, but still, it should be fine for them to choose & prefer this. And the game and the campaign setting should support them. And my job as the DM (I'm almost always the DM) is to run a game where they can play the character they want to play and have fun doing it. In fact, my guideline is that I try to make them look good, or even better, to make them look awesome. Magic or no magic. So, again, I believe that the only two criteria is 1) The Rule of Cool, and 2) does it fit with their char concept ? If yes to both of those, go nuts! I agree with your premise but not your conclusion. Most of our traditional stories are low level, and from what I hear, most game campaigns are low level too. So I don't think there's a big dissonance there, hence I don't believe this is the "real issue". To me the real issue is that it's easy to imagine what epic level magic is like, but it's a lot harder (ie takes more work on the part of the DM and the players) to imagine what equivalent level epic non-magic is like. Critical word in that sentence is "equivalent". Just b/c something takes more work, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. [/QUOTE]

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