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<blockquote data-quote="Gammadoodler" data-source="post: 8488874" data-attributes="member: 6914290">There are some interesting criticisms here some fair some less so. For example, i do think there are a number of ways in which monk abilities are underestimated.That said, the main issue with the noncombat feats that are frequently included in the 5e martial classes is that, especially relative to spells, they are typically some combination of:1. Slow.- create a new identity...in a week of downtime.2. Narrow- frighten a single enemy within 30 feet of you, or you know about two stats relative to yours3. Dysfunctional- Your strong tough barbarian uses charisma as the attribute for their save, your dex/con/wis focused monk can now talk to anything.4. LateIt takes an Assassin 9 levels to figure out effective document forgery in a presumably pseudo-medieval society without the internet. 10 levels for the hulking rage monster to learn how to scowl..badly5. Likely irrelevant to most campaigns.Unless you're playing a campaign modeled on Cocoon, or Benjamin Buttons, your character will basically never have to worry about old age, and if it is an issue, you'd probably just play an elf.I don't know if people would still disregard these things if they were better..but they truly aren't very good even for their intended purposes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gammadoodler, post: 8488874, member: 6914290"] There are some interesting criticisms here some fair some less so. For example, i do think there are a number of ways in which monk abilities are underestimated. That said, the main issue with the noncombat feats that are frequently included in the 5e martial classes is that, especially relative to spells, they are typically some combination of: 1. Slow. - create a new identity...in a week of downtime. 2. Narrow - frighten a single enemy within 30 feet of you, or you know about two stats relative to yours 3. Dysfunctional - Your strong tough barbarian uses charisma as the attribute for their save, your dex/con/wis focused monk can now talk to anything. 4. Late It takes an Assassin 9 levels to figure out effective document forgery in a presumably pseudo-medieval society without the internet. 10 levels for the hulking rage monster to learn how to scowl..badly 5. Likely irrelevant to most campaigns. Unless you're playing a campaign modeled on Cocoon, or Benjamin Buttons, your character will basically never have to worry about old age, and if it is an issue, you'd probably just play an elf. I don't know if people would still disregard these things if they were better..but they truly aren't very good even for their intended purposes. [/QUOTE]

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