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<blockquote data-quote="Gammadoodler" data-source="post: 8489702" data-attributes="member: 6914290">Friend, &quot;know your enemy&quot; does not get you even close to the level of specificity you are taking credit for.The only way you can pick up the information you're talking about is in very specific edge cases where your fighter level is the borderline. And...it's the one ability of the four that isn't nigh on useless. I notice you didn't even mention the barbarian on monk stuff.As far as the Assassin goes, you gotta ask yourself.A). What are the circumstances where this will be useful? and how likely are they to occur?B). Would I really try and stop another rogue, say one with the charlatan background and expertise in forgery tools from attempting this? (Literally the only reason to say &quot;no&quot; is because assasins have this as a class feature.. it's that dumb)C). What are the things casters could be doing during this time to address the same need? (Would you rather have a pretty good set of forged identity papers or a week's worth of scouting by your familiar, scrying, disguising yourself as a servant in the house, etc.)It's nice that assasins have a downtime activity. It's a shame it isn't very good. And yes rogues do get a lot of other good abilities of varying relation to combat and broadly they haven't been shat on the same way as Infiltration Expertise because they are not bad like Infiltration Expertise.Now, if you want to defend actually good martial noncombat abilities with a claim that they are undervalued, that's probably a worthwhile conversation. I'm sure there are a few of them. The ones you've chosen to focus on thus far though are valued about right for what they are worth.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gammadoodler, post: 8489702, member: 6914290"] Friend, "know your enemy" does not get you even close to the level of specificity you are taking credit for. The only way you can pick up the information you're talking about is in very specific edge cases where your fighter level is the borderline. And...it's the one ability of the four that isn't nigh on useless. I notice you didn't even mention the barbarian on monk stuff. As far as the Assassin goes, you gotta ask yourself. A). What are the circumstances where this will be useful? and how likely are they to occur? B). Would I really try and stop another rogue, say one with the charlatan background and expertise in forgery tools from attempting this? (Literally the only reason to say "no" is because assasins have this as a class feature.. it's that dumb) C). What are the things casters could be doing during this time to address the same need? (Would you rather have a pretty good set of forged identity papers or a week's worth of scouting by your familiar, scrying, disguising yourself as a servant in the house, etc.) It's nice that assasins have a downtime activity. It's a shame it isn't very good. And yes rogues do get a lot of other good abilities of varying relation to combat and broadly they haven't been shat on the same way as Infiltration Expertise because they are not bad like Infiltration Expertise. Now, if you want to defend actually good martial noncombat abilities with a claim that they are undervalued, that's probably a worthwhile conversation. I'm sure there are a few of them. The ones you've chosen to focus on thus far though are valued about right for what they are worth. [/QUOTE]

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