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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8490853" data-attributes="member: 6802951">So, the argument requires a martial to max out two abilities that none of their class abilities work with (presumably having to dump their primary and secondary ability scores to do so), and a DM that allows a character to have hundreds of thousands of gold from a Background choice?Am I understanding that correctly?Now, in many games, while that much gold does not translate to magic items, it would still be effective for many out-of-combat challenges. I do have reservations as to how well such a character would actually perform on most games however.Citation needed.That some class abilities are very limited in scope and/or application, simply means that better abilities would be an improvement. Unless I've got someone here on ignore, you are the first person to claim anyone is talking about "unless your martial has an insta-win ability for any given noncombat challenge, it's seen as worthless."Do you accept that there could be a middle ground between "one or two limited or hard to use abilities" and "dozens of auto-win abilities"?I think that impression came from when you took the discussion of the mechanics difference between casters and martials using the King Arthur example as just being about the story.Twice.No, the point that both GammaDoodler and myself were trying to explain to you is that the Fighter needs Excalibur and the rulership of England (both of which can only be granted by a generous DM) to be considered King Arthur - equivalent and at the same capability as Morgana is without the DM generosity.We're not claiming that "Morgana, wielder of the Staff of Power" is at the same power level as Morgana with just class features. We're pointing out that in general, King Arthur needs the DM to grant them the trappings in order to operate at the same level as Morgana without special treatment, and a fighter without the DM granting them special benefits is very much less capable and fun.DM generosity is always nice, but it shouldn't be required for specific classes.</blockquote>

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