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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8491531" data-attributes="member: 87792">It's trash because it takes 7 days. There is no other class feature I can think of in D&amp;D 5e that takes more than a single extended rest to carry out. It just operates on a different timescale from the rest of the party and to use has everyone else twiddling their thumbs.Which brings me on to a serious problem with the 5e fighter and rogue. The fighter just gets more of the same abilities they already have and the rogue gets no new active abilities (with the arguable exception in both cases of their level 20 abilities. The level 11 features are good in both cases (the third attack gives the fighter more attacks than any other class, and the rogue take 10 is awesome). But after that the fighter gets ASIs, which they already have, extra uses of Indomitable, an extra use of action surge, and one more attack than other high level fighters. And the rogue gets blindsense (utterly useful unless the enemy uses invisibility and is a creature), slippery mind (again not something that expands the rogue's options) and you can't even normally plan round Stroke of Luck. The barbarian is little better off; persistent rages still only last a minute and indomitable might is something but not incredible.Fundamentally 5e stops the three-ish caps the growth of the martial classes in flexibility at level 11 while not actually making it explicit that that's where they cap. I can see the argument behind a &quot;mundane cap&quot; that if you want to pretend that the classes are mundane (and were fine with hit points) capping them at level 12 or lower makes sense. But pretending the classes then continue is my problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8491531, member: 87792"] It's trash because it takes 7 days. There is no other class feature I can think of in D&D 5e that takes more than a single extended rest to carry out. It just operates on a different timescale from the rest of the party and to use has everyone else twiddling their thumbs. Which brings me on to a serious problem with the 5e fighter and rogue. The fighter just gets more of the same abilities they already have and the rogue gets no new active abilities (with the arguable exception in both cases of their level 20 abilities. The level 11 features are good in both cases (the third attack gives the fighter more attacks than any other class, and the rogue take 10 is awesome). But after that the fighter gets ASIs, which they already have, extra uses of Indomitable, an extra use of action surge, and one more attack than other high level fighters. And the rogue gets blindsense (utterly useful unless the enemy uses invisibility and is a creature), slippery mind (again not something that expands the rogue's options) and you can't even normally plan round Stroke of Luck. The barbarian is little better off; persistent rages still only last a minute and indomitable might is something but not incredible. Fundamentally 5e stops the three-ish caps the growth of the martial classes in flexibility at level 11 while not actually making it explicit that that's where they cap. I can see the argument behind a "mundane cap" that if you want to pretend that the classes are mundane (and were fine with hit points) capping them at level 12 or lower makes sense. But pretending the classes then continue is my problem. [/QUOTE]

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