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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8492357" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Because of niche/role protection (in some ways), which allows each character to contribute in their own way.For instance, I've seen games where two PCs had a lot of stuff that overlapped, and it sort of devalued both because, as the song goes, &quot;Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you.&quot;5E has a lot of magic and spell-like features in martial classes (mostly via subclasses). Frankly, it bothers me and detracts from the idea that the &quot;magical&quot; classes should be the &quot;magical&quot; classes. It is like in &quot;The Incredibles&quot;, when Dash's mom is talking to him in the car about using his super speed, she says, &quot;Everyone's special, Dash&quot; and his reply: &quot;Which is just another way of saying no one is...&quot;I mean, martials already have the best HP and AC, IME, not to mention they can do a lot of their stuff at will, compared to the spell-slot limitation of casters, even if their stuff is more powerful. For better or worse, that has always been the balance in D&amp;D.Anyway, as I've said, I am all for making higher level martials &quot;better&quot; to the point of awesomely heroic, but not to the point of &quot;super heroes&quot; simply because that isn't what I want to play. I wrote before a perfect example of improving a mundane feature would be Remarkable Athlete:Instead of this:[ATTACH=full]148699[/ATTACH]Make the second part:If you look at the modifications in the first part, jumping, what would this mean to a 15th level fighter with STR 18 giving the rules for jumping?RAW, the fighter could long jump 22 feet (18 STR + 4 STR mod). Honestly, that is pathetic! In high school I could long jump 21 feet (albeit landing in a sandy pit and not in plate armor LOL).With my suggestion, the fighter could jump 33 feet (18 + 15), which breaks our world record by over 3 feet! Make it a 20th level fighter with STR 10 and you are long jumping 40 feet with just a 10-foot approach!Look at the rules for lifting weights. A STR 20 PC can lift 600 lb. The rules don't really specify what sort of &quot;lift&quot;, so we could easily means this means a full press overhead if we want. Make it a race with powerful build and you double that (although now it is non-human...). Anyway, 600 lb. for an overhead lift is above all IRL records. Sure, there all sorts of other lifts which IRL are way more than 600 lb. so it depends on how your table wants to run the &quot;lift&quot; mechanics/ rules. shrugThat is what I mean by awesomely heroic, but not super heroic. It wouldn't take much rules fiddling to make martials approach even greater awesomeness. If you want super heroic, just take it even further...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8492357, member: 6987520"] Because of niche/role protection (in some ways), which allows each character to contribute in their own way. For instance, I've seen games where two PCs had a lot of stuff that overlapped, and it sort of devalued both because, as the song goes, "[I]Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you.[/I]" 5E has [I]a lot[/I] of magic and spell-like features in martial classes (mostly via subclasses). Frankly, it bothers me and detracts from the idea that the "magical" classes should be the "magical" classes. It is like in "The Incredibles", when Dash's mom is talking to him in the car about using his super speed, she says, "Everyone's special, Dash" and his reply: "Which is just another way of saying no one is..." I mean, martials already have the best HP and AC, IME, not to mention they can do a lot of their stuff at will, compared to the spell-slot limitation of casters, even if their stuff is more powerful. For better or worse, that has always been the balance in D&D. Anyway, as I've said, I am all for making higher level martials "better" to the point of awesomely heroic, but not to the point of "super heroes" simply because that isn't what I want to play. I wrote before a perfect example of improving a mundane feature would be [I]Remarkable Athlete[/I]: Instead of this: [ATTACH type="full"]148699[/ATTACH] Make the second part: If you look at the modifications in the first part, jumping, what would this mean to a 15th level fighter with STR 18 giving the rules for jumping? RAW, the fighter could long jump 22 feet (18 STR + 4 STR mod). Honestly, that is pathetic! In high school I could long jump 21 feet (albeit landing in a sandy pit and not in plate armor LOL). With my suggestion, the fighter could jump 33 feet (18 + 15), which breaks our world record by over 3 feet! Make it a 20th level fighter with STR 10 and you are long jumping 40 feet with just a 10-foot approach! Look at the rules for lifting weights. A STR 20 PC can lift 600 lb. The rules don't really specify what sort of "lift", so we could easily means this means a full press overhead if we want. Make it a race with powerful build and you double that (although now it is non-human...). Anyway, 600 lb. for an overhead lift is above all IRL records. Sure, there all sorts of other lifts which IRL are way more than 600 lb. so it depends on how your table wants to run the "lift" mechanics/ rules. [I]shrug[/I] That is what I mean by [I]awesomely heroic[/I], but not super heroic. It wouldn't take much rules fiddling to make martials approach even greater awesomeness. If you want super heroic, just take it even further... [/QUOTE]

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