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<blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8492382" data-attributes="member: 84112">Niche protection should be at the table... and it is about chooseing powers abilities and features. Giving the OPTION of an earthquake punch to martials doesn't mean both the cleric and the fighter NEED to take it.yup mostly with casters (wizard and cleric being the most jack of all trades even though THAT niche/role was supposed to be bard)we agree there... I would LOVE if they stopped adding magic and spells and made more exploits/manuivers that had a supernatural or mystic quality. um... did you watch that movie, that point gets refuted pretty hard (it is the bad guys philosophy too) because everyone CAN be special as long as they all have niche/role... Mr Incredible isn't as fast as dash, and violet is only one with force fields...lol... you have never seen a caster beat the fighter in AC... I envy you.it's cool you don't want superheroics... if those options get put there you can just take the simple ones over it.. why would us haveing our options hurt you?yes the fact that the rules don't allow a Str 20 trained in athletics fighter at level 20 to be able to win any Olympic event (when at that level str and training he should win almost all of them) is part of the &quot;Normal&quot; problem people have with martial options. again a 20th level fighter should SURPASS any record I can google of a real strength challange.Weightlifting: 'The Mountain' Bjornsson deadlifts 501 kg to set world record. (Reuters) - Icelandic actor and strongman Hafthor Bjornsson set a world record for the deadlift on Saturday when he lifted 1,104 pounds (501 kg) at Thor's Power Gym in Iceland.so yeah double the 600 is just within REAL LIFE human range... yes we want WOTC to do that...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="HammerMan, post: 8492382, member: 84112"] Niche protection should be at the table... and it is about chooseing powers abilities and features. Giving the OPTION of an earthquake punch to martials doesn't mean both the cleric and the fighter NEED to take it. yup mostly with casters (wizard and cleric being the most jack of all trades even though THAT niche/role was supposed to be bard) we agree there... I would LOVE if they stopped adding magic and spells and made more exploits/manuivers that had a supernatural or mystic quality. um... did you watch that movie, that point gets refuted pretty hard (it is the bad guys philosophy too) because everyone CAN be special as long as they all have niche/role... Mr Incredible isn't as fast as dash, and violet is only one with force fields... lol... you have never seen a caster beat the fighter in AC... I envy you. it's cool you don't want superheroics... if those options get put there you can just take the simple ones over it.. why would us haveing our options hurt you? yes the fact that the rules don't allow a Str 20 trained in athletics fighter at level 20 to be able to win any Olympic event (when at that level str and training he should win almost all of them) is part of the "Normal" problem people have with martial options. [I]again [/I]a 20th level fighter should SURPASS any record I can google of a real strength challange. Weightlifting: 'The Mountain' Bjornsson deadlifts 501 kg to set world record. (Reuters) - Icelandic actor and strongman Hafthor Bjornsson set a world record for the deadlift on Saturday when he lifted [B]1,104 pounds (501 kg)[/B] at Thor's Power Gym in Iceland. so yeah double the 600 is just within REAL LIFE human range... yes we want WOTC to do that... [/QUOTE]

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