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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8492385" data-attributes="member: 87792">You can't have niche/role protection while having magic users and muggles in the same party. Right now it is the utter insistence by some people that fighter types be mundane that is making niche protection, almost by definition, impossible.And if we want niche protection we're going to have to put the wizard through a shredder anyway. "Is the best at magic and their magic can do anything except heal" is the sort of thing that undermines niche protection.Martials don't have the best ACs. How good you are with weapons does little to allow you to parry blows. The best AC belongs IME to Paladin/Sorcerer multiclasses who supplement their plate armour and shield with the Shield spell. Followed by combat clerics with plate armour, shield, and Shield of FaithAnd the best hp? That's barbarians - who don't have the best AC. Paladins beat fighters in terms of hp - and thanks to better healing so in practice do clerics.And martials includes rogues. Who don't have excessive hp or AC.So the martials aren't mundane - they are in fact untiring robots. And this just means that the martials are the sidekicks, handling the chaff while the casters take over when things get serious.The original balance in D&D was twofold:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The wizard got all their spells known after first level as loot rather than as a consequence of levelling up so couldn't be tailored</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The fighters got first pick off the loot table for weapons (80% of random magic weapons in oD&D are swords, and 40% in AD&D, swords have higher plusses than other weapons, and clerics couldn't use swords)</li> </ol>Of course 3.0 decided to dump the class balance, removing the limitations on wizards and the things fighters had near exclusive access to.And your suggestion is still pathetic for a 20th level character when a seventeenth level an permanently shapechange into a dragon and fly all day long because of it. It looks awesome but is basically irrelevant.The rules say lifting - meaning that a Str 20 fighter (without powerful build) can't lift over 600lb even through one of these other forms of lifting.</blockquote>

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