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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8492404" data-attributes="member: 6987520">But if both can take it and both want it, it becomes an issue IME. I would prefer classes each just have "their own thing".In that spirit I will agree I think casters (all of them) have to wide a variety of spells that basically make mundane things accomplished by magic. I would rather see a feature like Spider Climb be something rogues (or maybe monks???) can do instead of seeing it as an arcane spell.IMO, too much magic (i.e. spells) also removes the "mystical feel" of magic.Yep, see my Spider Climb example above. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Nice to know we agree on something LOL!Exactly my point! If your super hero martial can accomplish things my caster can, they lose that protection and stop being special. FWIW, I agree it goes both ways. I don't want casters doing things via magic that could be the purview of martials.Well, I didn't say "never", just martials tend to have better ACs IME. YMMV of course.I never said it would hurt me. But if they became the default of the game, I'd be doing the work in the other direction to "mundanize" them.I agree, the RAW fall short of making PCs be able to do what people can do IRL.Look at movement. If you had a 18th-level monk human with mobility feat (speed 70), who moved, dashed, and bonus action step of the wind dash, he would move 210 feet in the round. If he did it a second round, he would break the current world record (9.6 ish) with about a 9.4 second 100-meter run.So, it's possible, but even using a lot of stuff the game has to offer, you are just barely better than IRL.That is why I stipulated, it depends on what you to mean by "lift", which is why I talked about overhead lifts, not deadlifts. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But, make a feat to mimic Powerful Build and you double the 600-lb. to 1200-lb., exceeding the IRL record deadlift. Actually, the Paragon class I posted upthread would allow a human to do this via the Heroic Stature feature gained at 1st level:[ATTACH=full]148702[/ATTACH]Hopefully they will. I am certainly not opposed to a "super hero supplement" for people who want it, I don't don't want that extreme to become the default. I agree the default is lackluster for martials and should be upgraded to more "awesomeness", but just not Hulk-smash levels. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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