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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jfdlsjfd" data-source="post: 8492936" data-attributes="member: 42856">20th level wizards have 27 spell slots to spend over 6 to 8 fights and adventuring challenges. With fight at this level tending to be short, maybe 4 rounds average, that's enough to exhaust them (24 to 32 rounds). Sure, they can curbstomp the first three fights with 5th-9th level spells, but the other half/two third of the adventuring day is them being level 20 and casting 1st to 4th level spells -- at this point they are better off casting cantrips, I guess. At this level, it is expected that save-or-die spells just fail because of Legendary resistances that are a mainstream of fights at these high levels.The more one tend to shorter days than intended, the more casters are overshadowing everything because they don't need to conserve resources. The more you go over this limit, the less it is balanced as intended. Truth is, I guess, most tables do less than intended length of adventuring day, and the intended balancing is totally theoretical. Even on the longest day, the number of 8 must be seldom crossed before a rest is "forced" by the casters upon the group (and it's common sense for other players to accomodate it). Or just because a medium challenge for a group at this level is a CR 20 dragon, and meeting 8 of them in an adventuring day is stretching credibility. So the situation, which I think is intended and seen ony in CRPG, where the caster goes to bed with several of his most powerful abilities intact because he was saving them for a tougher encounter, never happens to help martials get their moment to shine when they have to carry the group.Err, Circé could True Polymorph without poisoning according to Ovid: when she turns Scylla into a monstrous beast, she pours the material components on the floor of Scylla's house when she isn't there (my guess is she drew a 9th level Glyph of Warding to store the True Polymorph, so two 9th level spells in a row, triggering to Scylla's presence). In the case where she created the red woodpecker species out of King Picus, she doesn't seem to do anything more than VSM (it is mentionned she "touches" the victims, so maybe it requires a ranged touch attack but it can be cast several time in a row, since she turned his guards to beast a few moments after (so no long rest). Sure, she made people drink potions of True Polymorph when dealing with 22 of Ulysses companions, but being able to cast 22 9th level spells in a row and keeping concentration over all of them would put a 20th level D&D wizard to shame. While I can accept your general point, I think your specific Circé example doesn't fly.</blockquote>

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