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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8493239" data-attributes="member: 82504">A melee class and the monk is one... who cannot defend themselves nor deliver a payload is not a schtick. (its not a glass cannon, it's glass cracker)5e makes positioning much less meaningful (intentionally) than any previous edition if you run very fast with poor ac you get hit by most attacks which target ac and trigger more opportunity attacks.There are massively beneficial feats for the weapon using types that remains so (monk magic items also look paltry - thank you for a tattoo tasha).Control features are accounted for in optimization considerationsand monsters have a lot of good CON saves (making stun much harder to deliver that it looks 3 attacks and 3 points and 1 stun, 2 retaliations against your defenses with a fair chance of being hit)Generally control is indeed accounted for when it is pointed out casters overwhelm others (not so much dpr). I can stun one guy (while staying next to him) vs I can web from a distance (both slowing even if they succeed and restraining and messing with the vision to even target the caster et all) the entire team of melee enemies, which are rather common in 5e (while the ranged pick them off) .As for DPR, I personally would prefer its control even vaguely approach the worst caster options.  That said there are other people visualizing the legendary guy who splits the ground out from underneath his enemies also creating control AND delivering some decent damage too.For the monk I picture an ability that allowed one to pull disabling (perhaps slowing and restraining) pressure point attacks as one ran past enemies on the field (the caster gets his disable everyone without triggering opportunity attacks again monk needs defenses he will use them to pull this off)That battlemaster (aka archer) is not going to be exceeded in his forte if the monk can even touch his melee worst. (it is not anywhere near close)And sure newbies may waste chi on wall walking or some such... so why does it cost (the rogue doing a disengage is getting massive mobility and situational defense free)I guess the major issue is end game but since that is where casters are so heavily dominant picking the class who fades out badly compared even to other martials as ones model might be a problem in a discussion about making it so martial types do not do that.</blockquote>

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