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<blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8494590" data-attributes="member: 82504">I dispute that my 9th level fighter with his boring bonus items got anything as relatively powerful... too dm and campaign dependent, saw too many &quot;low magic&quot; campaigns that effectively nerfed martial selectivelywell they are within range of the same ability as a level 1 or 2 apprentice level character then maybedetailed analysis including crits and such helps put this in perspective a lot...&nbsp; large numbers of attackers are crit fishing by default, and treating squadrons of characters as a bunch of individuals seems problematic in the first place as in not something fun.Hmm my 4e tempest fighter in melee can using the right ability like rain of steel probably down 10 enemies a round possibly more by move attack move and using other burst powers.&nbsp; I am picturing 100 rounds maybe a little less.... bahThe only hits on a 20 will kick in around 10 levels after the creature was a moderate adversary ie a level 13 vs individual soldiers (level 3 types). And even if hit a decent number of times (it still wont give crit damage boosts) the fighter in 4e could pull out something like boundless endurance..&nbsp; even if the fight went 100 rounds I highly doubt the 13th level fighter would have defensive problems at all, and that is not counting the ways to get temp hit points[ATTACH=full]148875[/ATTACH]Using tools like swarm mechanics&nbsp; or squadron ones from level up makes the concept of wading into a hoard a lot more interesting</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Garthanos, post: 8494590, member: 82504"] I dispute that my 9th level fighter with his boring bonus items got anything as relatively powerful... too dm and campaign dependent, saw too many "low magic" campaigns that effectively nerfed martial selectively well they are within range of the same ability as a level 1 or 2 apprentice level character then maybe detailed analysis including crits and such helps put this in perspective a lot... large numbers of attackers are crit fishing by default, and treating squadrons of characters as a bunch of individuals seems problematic in the first place as in not something fun. Hmm my 4e tempest fighter in melee can using the right ability like rain of steel probably down 10 enemies a round possibly more by move attack move and using other burst powers. I am picturing 100 rounds maybe a little less.... bah The only hits on a 20 will kick in around 10 levels after the creature was a moderate adversary ie a level 13 vs individual soldiers (level 3 types). And even if hit a decent number of times (it still wont give crit damage boosts) the fighter in 4e could pull out something like boundless endurance.. even if the fight went 100 rounds I highly doubt the 13th level fighter would have defensive problems at all, and that is not counting the ways to get temp hit points [ATTACH type="full" alt="1640458256152.png"]148875[/ATTACH] Using tools like swarm mechanics or squadron ones from level up makes the concept of wading into a hoard a lot more interesting [/QUOTE]

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