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Casters vs Martials: Part 2 - The Mundane Limit
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8493791" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>The issue with 4e was less mechanical and more presentation. 4e had some very innovative ideas, but it really had trouble bringing the "feel" of dnd to the game. Even the books read like textbooks more than game books.</p><p></p><p>Similar in the use of martial powers. 4e gave martials abilities that border on spells...but with no flavor to explain how/why they work. That is partly why this thread exists, to find the line of where we can give martial characters abilities "in flavor", and where we have to draw the line and say "no that's just too crazy for a martial to get".</p><p></p><p>For a 4e example, take the power "Come and Get It". This was an ability that forced creatures near the fighter to instantly move to the fighter and take attacks. Its a commonly cited "problem ability" from 4e detractors....and honestly their concerns are understandable. Why does a reasonably intelligence creature just suddenly dive at the fighter and ultimately to their doom, just because the fighter wants them to?</p><p></p><p>This is an example of "Will Manipulation" done badly. The idea of a martial driving creatures away through fear is reasonable in flavor. The idea of a martial knocking people around and giving them a mental effect has decent flavor. The idea that a martial can command enemies and control their movements.... that crosses the line of reasonability.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 8493791, member: 5889"] The issue with 4e was less mechanical and more presentation. 4e had some very innovative ideas, but it really had trouble bringing the "feel" of dnd to the game. Even the books read like textbooks more than game books. Similar in the use of martial powers. 4e gave martials abilities that border on spells...but with no flavor to explain how/why they work. That is partly why this thread exists, to find the line of where we can give martial characters abilities "in flavor", and where we have to draw the line and say "no that's just too crazy for a martial to get". For a 4e example, take the power "Come and Get It". This was an ability that forced creatures near the fighter to instantly move to the fighter and take attacks. Its a commonly cited "problem ability" from 4e detractors....and honestly their concerns are understandable. Why does a reasonably intelligence creature just suddenly dive at the fighter and ultimately to their doom, just because the fighter wants them to? This is an example of "Will Manipulation" done badly. The idea of a martial driving creatures away through fear is reasonable in flavor. The idea of a martial knocking people around and giving them a mental effect has decent flavor. The idea that a martial can command enemies and control their movements.... that crosses the line of reasonability. [/QUOTE]
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