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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bert1001 fka bert1000" data-source="post: 8494119" data-attributes="member: 7029588">It's funny.  I went back and looked at the high level Fighter powers in the Player's Handbook and Martial Power 1 and 2 and they are a lot more mundane than I remember actually."Come and Get It" and 1 higher level version of it are the only powers I could find that stretched beyond even the heroic idea.High level Fighter powers just either do a lot of damage, hit mulitple enemies, allow for the full spectrum of mundane conditions (stun, daze, blind, disarm, ongoing damage, etc.), add extra movement and repositioning, add a way to mark a lot of people, add some kind of defensive thing into an attack, etc.   They give a lot more agency to the player on when these things happen but the level of effects themselves are not very far off from 3e and 5e.    There were still some things the Fighter couldn't do that the Wizard could (make walls, elemental damage, etc.) but the reverse was also actually true I think (marking)!  "Come and Get It" is a weird one.   I think it's actually trying to emulate a really mundane concept.   The trope where a martial type either fakes their guard is down or goads a mass of people to charge them.    Or maybe also the passive thing where people with numbers just gang up on the tough looking dude.It's implementation was initially automatic (pull anyone within 15 feet) and then errated to a will save.   So you could get cases that were harder to justify -- why would the 3 bow wielding goblins or robe wearing mages charge the Fighter?   Even this could be justified with a little squinting -- perhaps you describe it as the Fighter sweeping around them, grabbing and pushing so it ends up with the Fighter in the same spot and the 3 bow goblins sourrounding him.     4e was already getting more into mechanics first then fit the fiction with things like prone working on Oozes (just decribe it as the Ooze getting disrupted or split and having to take an action to reform before it can move normally) so they could have opened things up to more of this with things like Come and Get It.OR they could have designed it better as a "traditional" ability where you have to account for "realism" Maybe it would not have been as rejected if it was:You goad those inferior to you into attacking you or make it seem like you are hurt, causing them to charge into a trap. You pull any minion within 6 squares (30 ft) whos primary attack is melee 5 squares to you and make an attack against each one of them.   Even on a miss the minion is stuned.   Melee attack Standard and Elite monsters get a Will Save and do not get stuned on a miss.   Solo monsters are immune.This requires more DM adudication than 4e likes (you'd have to add a tag to monsters on whether not they are "melee primary" to really 4e it).</blockquote>

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