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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scars Unseen" data-source="post: 8494934" data-attributes="member: 10196">I have my problems with the way 4E was structured, but this specifically is not one of them.  That's just a resolution mechanic, and the only difference between forcing a save and, for example, making a skill check is whose ability is in question.  If I make a skill check, I am specifically determining whether I am good enough at what I'm attempting to pull off the desired result.  If I force a save, it's a given that I'm skilled enough; the question is whether or not the target is good enough not to be affected.I don't see any reason why a wizard can be good enough at casting magic that they're able to successfully cast 100% of the time, but a melee combatant can't be good enough at controlling the flow of combat that they can 100% draw an opponent into the action they desire, given that the opponent themself isn't wary enough to see through it. Honestly, I'd be open to the idea of more combat actions outside of direct attacks being save based.  It would vary up combat and possibly open player up more to the idea of just trying stuff in combat, something the groups I played with used to do with AD&D because otherwise combat was fairly boring.</blockquote>