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Casters vs Martials: Part 2 - The Mundane Limit
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<blockquote data-quote="bert1001 fka bert1000" data-source="post: 8495146" data-attributes="member: 7029588"><p>Most of the this thread is just a rehash of all the same back and forth, but it has set off a light bulb for me on one new thing:</p><p></p><p>Not only do some mundane martial advocates want limitations on the fiction --- which is fine, that is the premise. How do we create this sort of somewhat better than real life action hero. (of course I and many others would like this action hero as only 1 choice of martial along side those martials that grow to mythic hero status since that is what spellcasters do and more choice is good!)</p><p></p><p>BUT ALSO, some want to restrict the game mechanics that can be used to model this action hero at the same time! </p><p></p><p>Will saves can't resprent this or that, martial abilities have to always stick to the more explicit action economy, you have to narrowly define the fiction that the martial is taking instead of just leaving is open to fit the fictional circumstances, etc.</p><p></p><p>Even if sticking to the action hero, people are having trouble getting these types of "scenes" into the mechanics because they are not using the whole tool box. If you are going to stick to action hero, don't make the class jump through a bunch of mechancial hoops just to do this action hero stuff (which by definition is never going to be as powerful as the mythic spellcasting anyway).</p><p></p><p>I've said it before but D&D is TEAM adventuring game (that is why it gets compared to comic book supers a lot IMO). </p><p></p><p>By definition, you can't really have Black Widow and Dr. Strange having equal impact and spotlight without plot contrivance. In a rpg this can be done by metacurrency, or by broader effect first abiltiies that give some of this narrative control. Maybe there are other ways, but trying to make a bunch of discrete little abilties that are bound by the D&D action ecnomy doesn't seem like a good way to do it. (the discrete action economy stuff can be there for the at-will abilities)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bert1001 fka bert1000, post: 8495146, member: 7029588"] Most of the this thread is just a rehash of all the same back and forth, but it has set off a light bulb for me on one new thing: Not only do some mundane martial advocates want limitations on the fiction --- which is fine, that is the premise. How do we create this sort of somewhat better than real life action hero. (of course I and many others would like this action hero as only 1 choice of martial along side those martials that grow to mythic hero status since that is what spellcasters do and more choice is good!) BUT ALSO, some want to restrict the game mechanics that can be used to model this action hero at the same time! Will saves can't resprent this or that, martial abilities have to always stick to the more explicit action economy, you have to narrowly define the fiction that the martial is taking instead of just leaving is open to fit the fictional circumstances, etc. Even if sticking to the action hero, people are having trouble getting these types of "scenes" into the mechanics because they are not using the whole tool box. If you are going to stick to action hero, don't make the class jump through a bunch of mechancial hoops just to do this action hero stuff (which by definition is never going to be as powerful as the mythic spellcasting anyway). I've said it before but D&D is TEAM adventuring game (that is why it gets compared to comic book supers a lot IMO). By definition, you can't really have Black Widow and Dr. Strange having equal impact and spotlight without plot contrivance. In a rpg this can be done by metacurrency, or by broader effect first abiltiies that give some of this narrative control. Maybe there are other ways, but trying to make a bunch of discrete little abilties that are bound by the D&D action ecnomy doesn't seem like a good way to do it. (the discrete action economy stuff can be there for the at-will abilities) [/QUOTE]
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