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<blockquote data-quote="bert1001 fka bert1000" data-source="post: 8496393" data-attributes="member: 7029588">Sure, but it got conflated with the notion of balancing this &quot;action hero&quot; with full spellcasters.So if it's -- How much can we push the power of martials but still leave them &quot;mundane&quot; in flavor?&nbsp;&nbsp; And we don't care if the &quot;action hero&quot; ever gets near full spell caster power, agency, and solution to challanges.&nbsp;&nbsp; We just want the &quot;action hero&quot; better than the current martials and better emulate some the &quot;action hero stuff&quot; we see in fiction.&nbsp;&nbsp; Then I think it's very doable.&nbsp; &nbsp; Although I still argue that embracing a bigger toolbox would be even better to do this.&nbsp; This will unfortunately still be difficult to crowd source because even if you get people to play within these parameters, there are people that are putting further parameters on the design that I don't think you are envisioning.&nbsp; &nbsp; Hence the pushback on your OP and those abilties &quot;just being spells&quot; by several posters even if they can be rationaled in the fiction as action hero/mundane effects.Anyway, I will try to get out of the way now unless I have specific comments on proposed abilities or suggestions for abilities that fit the parameters of1) enhancing the power of martials but still leave them &quot;mundane&quot;&nbsp; or &quot;action hero&quot; in flavor2) want the class better than the current martials, but don't care if it ends up being much lower powered than current full spellcastersI disagree that just because some people are against the notion of mythic martials that it shouldn't exist as an option.&nbsp;&nbsp; Given the existance of the mythic D&amp;D spellcaster and fictional examples of mythic martials as inspiration for the earliest D&amp;D, it has a good reason to exist in the game as an option both from a game balance and historical D&amp;D perspective (fulfiling the rhetorical promise from earlier editions).&nbsp;&nbsp; People can ignore the option but there isn't really any good reason to deny it to others who want it.&nbsp;&nbsp; But of course, discussion on the creation of that mythical martial does not have to be this thread.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bert1001 fka bert1000, post: 8496393, member: 7029588"] Sure, but it got conflated with the notion of balancing this "action hero" with full spellcasters. So if it's -- How much can we push the power of martials but still leave them "mundane" in flavor? And we don't care if the "action hero" ever gets near full spell caster power, agency, and solution to challanges. We just want the "action hero" better than the current martials and better emulate some the "action hero stuff" we see in fiction. Then I think it's very doable. Although I still argue that embracing a bigger toolbox would be even better to do this. This will unfortunately still be difficult to crowd source because even if you get people to play within these parameters, there are people that are putting further parameters on the design that I don't think you are envisioning. Hence the pushback on your OP and those abilties "just being spells" by several posters even if they can be rationaled in the fiction as action hero/mundane effects. Anyway, I will try to get out of the way now unless I have specific comments on proposed abilities or suggestions for abilities that fit the parameters of 1) enhancing the power of martials but still leave them "mundane" or "action hero" in flavor 2) want the class better than the current martials, but don't care if it ends up being much lower powered than current full spellcasters I disagree that just because some people are against the notion of mythic martials that it shouldn't exist as an option. Given the existance of the mythic D&D spellcaster and fictional examples of mythic martials as inspiration for the earliest D&D, it has a good reason to exist in the game as an option both from a game balance and historical D&D perspective (fulfiling the rhetorical promise from earlier editions). People can ignore the option but there isn't really any good reason to deny it to others who want it. But of course, discussion on the creation of that mythical martial does not have to be this thread. [/QUOTE]

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