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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Surmos" data-source="post: 5910068" data-attributes="member: 6682413">VERY well stated.Even when reading some of these comments it is clear that some people never actually experienced issues as others did in regards to balance because the groups they have played with did not notice an issue with the style of game play.  Now this could be because there was no genuine issue or even that the gameplay matched the perception of the game. (casters were stronger, but this was acceptable.)  Whichever was the case i believe that as long as the players and the DM are having fun at that table, the game is doing what it set out to do.  My hope is that with 5E ( they can please the greatest number of people.  We definitely share that feeling on the on the system of choice.My rant is really a bit unfair because i ended up enjoying (it took a long year to see it) the 4E style of the game more than i thought i could.  I had to understand what i was seeing and i had to figure out why these changes didn't bother me as much as other people when they saw them... (here i go again...)..If you were to look at the MMO market and back to an older MMO game such as..Everquest.  Everquest was made very closely to the style of D&D that i mentioned in my previous post in regards to the "Tolkien" setting (or maybe the AD&D setting?...)Fighters had a weapon and a shield (or 2 weapons) and bascially had the ability to taunt.  This taunt had to be switched off between mobs to prevent mobs from hitting other classes that did other important things. (like the wizard, ranger, druid, or cleric)The fighter was a basic class with a limited taunt.Then you look at the wizard from Everquest.  The wizard could root targets, do massive damage and basically Teleport to anywhere in the world.  It was not only powerful  with burst spells and rooting but also had the benefit of heavy amounts of convenience given its magic abilities. (teleport, levitate, fly, invisible)Why is this relevant?  Almost there..Flash forward to MMO's of the 2005+ Era.  Fighters DONT JUST taunt with a single button.  They have different kinds of taunts, roots, knockdowns, pushes/pulls that will keep enemies on them for whatever reason they want to (defending or damage dealing).  It wasn't until this era that we saw an explosion of people playing MMO's that never had seen this genre before.These changes ( and also other factors) resulted in an unprecedented amount of players that were playing MMO games, where previously this genre had a much smaller niche in the gaming market.  Now knowing this i couldn't fault what the company was trying to do for 4E.  It wasn't unwise to change the formula given that a previous franchise had done so similarly with a niche market in digital gaming.  I almost believe it would have been an unwise decision to not take that risk.  Classes that were not caster got more abilities and more options.  It almost made every class a spell class (yeah i said it.  so sue me)  But if some of these posts are any indication, I and others believe that 4E was the closest the game had come to avoiding that caster ability to "overshadow" mundane classes.Linking this to my "immature rant" a bit...Many people said very similar things in regards to new MMO games. " This isn't Everquest.",  "This isn't World of Warcraft", "This isn't Ultima Online" and if that is good enough for people to not play a particular MMO (and to parallel.. a particular tabletop RPG system <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /> "This isn't AD&D/3.x/4E") then that is acceptable.  To this day people still PAY MONTHLY to play Everquest.  But it is the lack of willingness to broaden the perception of what makes these games that has me disappointed when i read these forums on occasion.  If you were to ask if i feel like more people know about D&D because of 4E my answer is: Absolutely.Whether more people play it or bought it is a different question.  More people are aware of a niche of gaming that i'm interested in.  This can only be good for me one way or the other.  Too much?...</blockquote>

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