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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5913162" data-attributes="member: 87792">The problem here is that I'm mentioning mainline combat spells.  Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, and Evard's Black Tentacles are not niche spells.  They are spells that happen to be my favourite mainline combat spells at levels 2, 3 and 4.  And all of them are pretty flexible.  All of them ignore spell resistance (and by extension spell immunity).  Each of them has a very different counter (in some games I'd take Solid Fog rather than Evard's) so the enemy needs to prepare against them all.  All of them can either with good positioning take out single targets, or can take out groups of enemies (glitterdust also counters invisibility for extra flexibility).  All three spells therefore make it into my spellbook as general combat spells.  At level 2 my rival to <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm" target="_blank">Glitterdust</a> is <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm" target="_blank">Web</a> (I need to hit Reflex with something debilitating, and it doesn't allow SR eitherm or even pay any attention to evasion).  At level 3, my rival to <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stinkingCloud.htm" target="_blank">Stinking Cloud</a> is <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slow.htm" target="_blank">Slow</a> - which is a multi-target anti-will spell to absolutely cripple melee enemies.  And at level 4 my combat spells are <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm" target="_blank">Evard's Black Tentacles</a> (AoE anti small person spell), <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/confusion.htm" target="_blank">Confusion</a> (or <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fear.htm" target="_blank">Fear</a> if I banned enchantment) for an anti-will spell for upseting fighters, and <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/solidFog.htm" target="_blank">Solid Fog</a>.As a wizard, my job is to be prepared for a range of problems on any given day.  And becuase of the power and flexibility of the spells, memorising multiple copies of powerful and versatile combat spells is a good way to do this.A default loadout expecting some trouble (but not actively dungeoncrawling) at level 7 would probably include two Evard's, two Stinking Clouds, and two Glitterdusts.  This would leave me with room for Greater Invisibility at level 4, Fly and Haste at level 3, and Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, and Rope Trick at level 2.  Plus my level 1 spells (probably Change Self, Alarm, Enlarge Person, Silent Image, and either Unseen Servant or Mage Armour depending whether I'm wearing a Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt or not).Telling me I wouldn't have my wizard prepare mainline combat spells?  Why not?  Why is the day such an odd one that I either don't have room for my favourite combat spells or don't know them despite having gained them automatically when I levelled?There are plenty of ways to beat a wizard.  The "Get a bigger hammer" method will do it.  So will nickling and diming.  At least until 9th level when the wizard gets teleport.  So will a sudden ganking - a surprise Stinking Cloud will do just as much to the wizard as it would to the bad guys (CoDzilla naturally having good fortitude defences).  Actually it's much harder to beat clerics or druids than wizards.Then you miss the arms race.  When a fighter or barbarian gains a level, there are two obvious ways to challenge them.  Bigger Monsters or Moar Monsters.  The same fundamental approach works with a rogue, ranger, paladin, or any other martial class, and by a predictable amount.  The wizard?  What the wizard gains is more options.  Which means more ways of subverting the problem.  The wizard in 3.X gets to open completely different lines of attack with each spell level.  At second level it's Invisibility.  At third it's Flight.  At fourth it's Walls and Animate Dead, sealing people off.  At fifth it's Teleport, Polymorph, and Permanency.  Which means at fifth level a wizard can come from any point in any direction, looking like anything they want to and with an array of defences.If greater dispel has a complete 100% success, what have you done?  Traded a standard action for a standard action of an equally powerful wizard.  The best case scenario is that you've cancelled them out.  Even if it succeeds you aren't making progress.Note: This doesn't apply to throwing dispels at buff-monkeys.  If the Cleric has Divine Favour, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Haste, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, and the kitchen sink on themNo.  You cast it in one round.  Then d4+1 <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bralani.htm" target="_blank">Bralani</a> show up and each of them casts Lightning Bolt both the round they turn up and the following round.  That's d4+1 (small) lightning bolts in a round plus your other spells...In a previous thread I challenged people whether they thought there was a level 15 fighter who's as much use as d3+1 augmented <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/cat-great/tiger/dire-tiger" target="_blank">Celestial Dire Tigers</a>, d4+2 augmented <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/ankylosaurus" target="_blank">Celestial Anklyosauri</a>, or d4+2 <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/azata/bralani" target="_blank">Bralani Azata</a> - each able to lightning bolt.  Because that's what <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monster" target="_blank">Summon Monster 7</a> will get you.  Or a single standard action from a <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner" target="_blank">Summoner</a> two levels lower who's lost his most important class feature (the Eidolon).  And it's known that Summoners are good in PF - but not as good as Wizards or Clerics - there are enough duels to prove that. And there have been enough arena duels involving fighters.  It used to be quite the sport on the WoTC boards.  The fighters lost there too above above about 6th level unless they won initiative and were able to one-shot the wizards.  And the wizards weren't pre-buffed to be hard to get at.Your challenge has been asked and answered.  Many, many times. As for no fun, that's the problem.  Some of us want to play wizards.  And we're disappointed we can't.</blockquote>

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