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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5913929" data-attributes="member: 87792">As a wizard the strength you have been given is the ability to pick the most powerful spells.  Yes, you can ban conjuration quite happily - there are powerful non-conjuration spells - conjuration is simply the most obvious.  But "I don't pick the most powerful spells" is absolutely equivalent to saying "I deliberately ignore the strengths I've been given."And this is why I think the variant mages (sorceror, bard, beguiler, summoner, etc.) are thematically vastly superior to the wizard.  You actually can say "because" to the question of why you don't have Slow.  Or Glitterdust.  Or Invisibility.  Or Charm Person.  Or any other powerful spell you care to name.Arena duels are a bit silly anyway, as they are artificial.  The wizard's big strengths, compared to the fighter, are area control and the ability to pick when and where to fight.  With a high level wizard, getting a fighter into the same arena is a win for the fighter.<a href="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129672" target="_blank">As for arena duels, not sure.  I don't keep logs of them.  But Giant In The Playground were speculating on level 20 fighter vs level 13 wizard.</a>  And the fighter's chances seem to be based round Leadership or his superior wealth (using wealth by level) to fake being a wizard.And I'm not sure why you think a fighter never loses fighting ability.  At least not unless they've cross-classed to take UMD and Wands of Cure Light Wounds - or are chugging back potions throughout the day.  Either way they are burning their money to stay relevant.  For wizards on the other hand the length of the day becomes more and more theoretical as a limit.  A specialist wizard gains an average of three spells per level between level 5 and level 17, making the limit more and more like your sixteen hour day of fighting - how many attack rolls do you need to make?Except the monsters trying to kill you.  And the PCs and NPCs who depend on you.I like magic users too.  The problem isn't the idea of magic users.  It's the 2e and 3e Wizard.  And Druid.  And Cleric.  (Arguably also the Artificer).  The ones who have pretty much free reign on which spells from the huge spell list they prepare.  It is not a coincidence that these are all tier 1 classes.I don't understand why going into Vietnam you'd arm every GI with a gun.  That has to be boring.  Why don't you arm some of them with bows?And I don't pick certain spells for every caster.  I prefer bards or beguilers to wizards.  Because if a bard is preparing for a fight they don't get to rifle through a list of overpowered spells. And this has what to do with the price of oil in Nantucket market?  You noticed that on my default spell load out above there were only six direct combat spells?  Six spells out of seventeen non-cantrips, or approximately a third.  The attitude isn't about being uber powerful in combat - that would involve all spells being combat spells.  It's about being good at combat if you need to fight at all.  It's enough to go two fights with your mageslayers and pull their weight in two more fights with relatively miserly spell use.  The fighters can do the actual killing.Objection: Oxymoron.  This is part of the problem.  Blaster style casters took a serious nerf between 2e and 3e - hit points and weapon damage inflated.  Blast damage did not.  So blasters took a de facto serious nerf.This is sounding close to the caster I outlined.A default loadout expecting some trouble (but not actively  dungeoncrawling) at level 7 would probably include two Evard's, two  Stinking Clouds, and two Glitterdusts.  This would leave me with room  for Greater Invisibility at level 4, Fly and Haste at level 3, and  Invisibility, Detect Thoughts, and Rope Trick at level 2.  Plus my level  1 spells (probably Change Self, Alarm, Enlarge Person, Silent Image,  and either Unseen Servant or Mage Armour depending whether I'm wearing a  Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt or not). That's just it.  You as a wizard pretty much can end the fights and do everything else.  If you do not have decent combat spells as a wizard then that is a personal in character choice.  It is explicitely saying "I'm going to be risking my life but am purposely not going to prepare for that."I read things very differently from you there.  What I read isn't that mundane characters are weaker than casters in myths and legends, but that protagonists always look weaker than the BBEG - whether or not the protagonists or the casters were mages.If Odysseus was weaker than Circe then we absolutely can assume that Odysseus was of a lower level than Circe.  Because that is what level measures.  Power of a character.The NPCs on the other hand have to look more powerful than the protagonists because that is needed to create tension.  Whether they do it through being stronger, through magic, or through political power and/or arnies doesn't matter.</blockquote>

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