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Casters vs Mundanes in your experience
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5914416" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I've already recommended the Tome of Awesome to you once. Even ToA non-casters struggle a lot with highly effective play. As for burning system mastery, you can't. If people like something they will examine it. (Now traps for system mastery are another issue and even Monte Cook has acknowledged they were a mistake).</p><p></p><p>D&D has always had a sword-and-sorcery core. With gritty fighters. And you'd make most of the OSR unhappy to have charambara or celtic myth fighters. You wouldn't make me unhappy in the slightest there.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I have said over and over the problem is Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard. At low levels the fighters can compete - and the gap might even be in the favour of certain non-casters. If you're playing <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/206323-e6-game-inside-d-d.html" target="_blank">E6</a> the problem hasn't had time to get serious.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which means that your character is being forced not to treat things seriously. Right. This isn't how I play. I'll happily play a bard with a completely random spell selection. But the <em>in character choices</em> are going to be taken seriously. And unlike sorcerors or bards, wizard spell selection is an <em>in character</em> choice. If the premise of the game is Fantasy <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ing Vietnam then my wizard is going to treat it as Fantasy <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ing Vietnam even if I don't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wizards have overpowered spells. Direct damage spells are seldom overpowered. Sure they are useful but wizard spells should be useful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. I don't mind magic being powerful. I just object to the pairing of powerful magic, gritty fighter. If you want to play Exalted, I'll happily play that. It's just a world away from D&D's legacy</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Neither am I. I'm saying that in character wizards <em>should</em> pick the most powerful combat options because they want to save their lives.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course there are. But there's a difference between the range of them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No I don't normally have combat intense games. However this doesn't change the premise that <em>any spell slot used for combat should be picking the best choice available</em>. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course. None of which fighters have much to help with <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> When you need a combat spell you need it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And once again, this is a strawman. What I am saying is that a smart wizard picks the most effective combat spells they have access to with all the resources they think are worth spending on combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As it happens you're outnumbered 3:1 here. And they can either make magic weak or make fighters able to do their jobs. We've had the anti-fighter edition of 3.X. The one where you take crippling penalties for wearing heavy armour. And all limits on casters are weakened and most can be subverted.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5914416, member: 87792"] I've already recommended the Tome of Awesome to you once. Even ToA non-casters struggle a lot with highly effective play. As for burning system mastery, you can't. If people like something they will examine it. (Now traps for system mastery are another issue and even Monte Cook has acknowledged they were a mistake). D&D has always had a sword-and-sorcery core. With gritty fighters. And you'd make most of the OSR unhappy to have charambara or celtic myth fighters. You wouldn't make me unhappy in the slightest there. And I have said over and over the problem is Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard. At low levels the fighters can compete - and the gap might even be in the favour of certain non-casters. If you're playing [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/206323-e6-game-inside-d-d.html"]E6[/URL] the problem hasn't had time to get serious. Which means that your character is being forced not to treat things seriously. Right. This isn't how I play. I'll happily play a bard with a completely random spell selection. But the [I]in character choices[/I] are going to be taken seriously. And unlike sorcerors or bards, wizard spell selection is an [I]in character[/I] choice. If the premise of the game is Fantasy :):):):)ing Vietnam then my wizard is going to treat it as Fantasy :):):):)ing Vietnam even if I don't. Wizards have overpowered spells. Direct damage spells are seldom overpowered. Sure they are useful but wizard spells should be useful. No. I don't mind magic being powerful. I just object to the pairing of powerful magic, gritty fighter. If you want to play Exalted, I'll happily play that. It's just a world away from D&D's legacy Neither am I. I'm saying that in character wizards [I]should[/I] pick the most powerful combat options because they want to save their lives. Of course there are. But there's a difference between the range of them. No I don't normally have combat intense games. However this doesn't change the premise that [I]any spell slot used for combat should be picking the best choice available[/I]. Of course. None of which fighters have much to help with :) When you need a combat spell you need it. And once again, this is a strawman. What I am saying is that a smart wizard picks the most effective combat spells they have access to with all the resources they think are worth spending on combat. As it happens you're outnumbered 3:1 here. And they can either make magic weak or make fighters able to do their jobs. We've had the anti-fighter edition of 3.X. The one where you take crippling penalties for wearing heavy armour. And all limits on casters are weakened and most can be subverted. [/QUOTE]
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