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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5917262" data-attributes="member: 87792">The thing is that 4e is pretty much done as a game. There are precisely two books I want to see for 4e that aren't setting books (and I like the 4e setting books the way they are - 2 books and done). Those are the Unearthed Arcana equivalent, including, including Mass Combat, wilderness survival, assassination rules, and politics and running guilds. Also an epic-focussed monster manual. (You can probably get two books out of the UA). 4e already has as many feats as 3.X. It has an incredible spectrum of classes* (about the only thing missing is a Vancian Mage just for the hell of it), most of which work well. And there just isn't the driver for spell or prestige class bloat. I'm happy considering it a mature game. Plus with the exception of the Martial Power 2 styles, all the feats that affect powers directly that I can think of are for affecting at will powers. Easy enough to find and low-ish interactions with the build. (Doesn't count feats that e.g. give a bonus to illusions). * There were 25 before Essentials (and each class has between two and six subclasses plus powers customisation), of which I positively like 20 (I'm not happy with the psychic 3, the Runepriest is too fiddly, and the oAssassin is just weak). Since then we have a massively improved wizard**, the simple fighter(s), the absolute gem that is the Thief class, the simple ranger(s), the eAssassin, the simple elementalist Sorceror, the other two classes that make up the 3e Druid***, the Blackguard (and Cavalier****), the Vampire*****, and the Berserker. Oh, and the Binder (DIAF), the Skald (arguably enough of a bard variant). ** Orb wizards, staff wizards, and wand wizards are just boring compared to Illusionists, Evokers, Pyromancers, Nethermancers, et al. *** Shapeshifter, pet-class healer, and controller caster. **** Defining Paladins as the embodiment of a virtue and Blackguards as a vice is IMO a stroke of genius. Makes sense of the old LG Paladins while allowing other sorts. Much better fluff than the Paladin has ever had and separates it from the armoured hitty cleric. ***** Yes, the Vampire is a class in 4e. And this is a good way to handle Vampires whose main focus is being a vampire. (As it happens the Cleric class in OD&D was a direct response to the Vampire class). You can also handle vampires as a race (Vyrokola), a multiclass feat, and IIRC a theme. Edit: I agree with pmerton (surprise!) on both points.  First that 4e's feat bloat (it actually surpassed 3e IIRC) is a bad thing.  And second that this is strictly a player-problem.  DMs don't have to worry about what feats monsters have.  Or what spells to prepare.  PC creation time might be comparable without tools, but 4e NPC creation is a snap.</blockquote>

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