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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5956571" data-attributes="member: 6669384">It was a direct reading of the text in the rules.&nbsp; Area of effect continues normally outside the AMF.&nbsp; It's right there in black and white.&nbsp; Not an interpretation, the actual rules.In the interest of brevity I'll paraphrase some of what you're saying...Regarding fireball's bead, you agree that it &quot;sometimes has a point&quot; (same as being a &quot;thing&quot;?)&nbsp; But you conclude that I'm wrong because you're right.&nbsp; Not what I'd consider a well reasoned proof, but it's what we have.Your next argument is that since I'm not Skip Williams, I'm wrong, even when quoting the exact text of the rules.I have, several times.&nbsp; You've dismissed, rather than disproven.So the problem is that if I'm right, then you're wrong, and that isn't possible?The part I highlighted says exactly what I've been saying, that AOE continues normally outside of the AMF.&nbsp; It's not an opinion, an interpretation, or some argument for &quot;Rules as intended&quot;.&nbsp; It's an exact quote from the rules.&nbsp; You appear to be dismissing the exact text of the rules, and I honestly don't understand how you can do that in a discussion like this.&nbsp; We are supposed to be discussing the rules, aren't we?I see, a simple oversight, but a bit disengenuos, since Etherealness lys down specific limits on casting spells back to the material plane.&nbsp; As in, you pretty much can't, whether you're inside the object or not.As an aside, Meld Into Stone may be the spell you're looking for, though I don't know off hand if it allows any spell casting while inside the stone.Your example was chosen as one that specifically blocks LOE, and was used as an argument to support that AMF blocks LOE.&nbsp; To many flaws in there to bother enumerating.&nbsp; Suffice it to say that it feels like you're arguing in bad faith.As for where we stand:&nbsp; Yes, I think we both know.&nbsp; I think I'm reading the rules exactly as written, with no spin, twist, or contortions of word, phrase or logic.By the way, I'd like to apologize again for my bad manners.&nbsp; I sometimes get that way when I'm frustrated, and this has been a very frustrating exchange.&nbsp; I kept pointing to the rules and you kept saying that they weren't there.Even so, it doesn't excuse anything, and I really will try to do better in our future exchanges.Oh, and I've had a change of heart on one point.&nbsp; Sadly it's one we both agreed on:&nbsp; That a caster can cast spells affecting themselves while in an AMF.&nbsp; I said that I thought it was all right.After reading the rules over and over again as we went through this, I realized that they pretty clearly say no.&nbsp; And it has nothing to do with LOE.&nbsp; It has to do with targeting a spell with a starting point inside an AMF.&nbsp; The rules say that spells with a &quot;starting point&quot; inside the AMF are completely canceled, and even if the area is &quot;Creature touched&quot;, it still counts.&nbsp; Whatever else we may disagree about, I hop we can agree that spells targeted into an AMF don't work.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 5956571, member: 6669384"] It was a direct reading of the text in the rules. Area of effect continues normally outside the AMF. It's right there in black and white. Not an interpretation, the actual rules. In the interest of brevity I'll paraphrase some of what you're saying... Regarding fireball's bead, you agree that it "sometimes has a point" (same as being a "thing"?) But you conclude that I'm wrong because you're right. Not what I'd consider a well reasoned proof, but it's what we have. Your next argument is that since I'm not Skip Williams, I'm wrong, even when quoting the exact text of the rules. I have, several times. You've dismissed, rather than disproven. So the problem is that if I'm right, then you're wrong, and that isn't possible? The part I highlighted says exactly what I've been saying, that AOE continues normally outside of the AMF. It's not an opinion, an interpretation, or some argument for "Rules as intended". It's an exact quote from the rules. You appear to be dismissing the exact text of the rules, and I honestly don't understand how you can do that in a discussion like this. We are supposed to be discussing the rules, aren't we? I see, a simple oversight, but a bit disengenuos, since [I]Etherealness[/I] lys down specific limits on casting spells back to the material plane. As in, you pretty much can't, whether you're inside the object or not. As an aside, [I]Meld Into Stone[/I] may be the spell you're looking for, though I don't know off hand if it allows any spell casting while inside the stone. Your example was chosen as one that specifically blocks LOE, and was used as an argument to support that AMF blocks LOE. To many flaws in there to bother enumerating. Suffice it to say that it feels like you're arguing in bad faith. As for where we stand: Yes, I think we both know. I think I'm reading the rules exactly as written, with no spin, twist, or contortions of word, phrase or logic. By the way, I'd like to apologize again for my bad manners. I sometimes get that way when I'm frustrated, and this has been a very frustrating exchange. I kept pointing to the rules and you kept saying that they weren't there. Even so, it doesn't excuse anything, and I really will try to do better in our future exchanges. Oh, and I've had a change of heart on one point. Sadly it's one we both agreed on: That a caster can cast spells affecting themselves while in an AMF. I said that I thought it was all right. After reading the rules over and over again as we went through this, I realized that they pretty clearly say no. And it has nothing to do with LOE. It has to do with targeting a spell with a starting point inside an AMF. The rules say that spells with a "starting point" inside the AMF are completely canceled, and even if the area is "Creature touched", it still counts. Whatever else we may disagree about, I hop we can agree that spells targeted into an AMF don't work. [/QUOTE]

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