Casting spells

[Hawken]

Here's the deal:

I'm in a game. I'm just a player, not the DM.

The DM has stated that in a combat round, if you choose to cast a spell (with a casting time of less than 1 round), you start casting your spell at the beginning of the round and then your spell goes off on your initiative count. Players in the game with spellcasting characters (not me), are saying that makes it too difficult for the casters because it lets anyone who sees them and has a higher initiative act against them to disrupt the spell. The players are arguing that when they cast a spell that the casting starts on their initiative count and ends when they take that action (free, move or standard) on the same count, so that the only way someone could disrupt their spell is if a ready action is prepared to either attack or counterspell when casting starts--or if they are threatened by a melee opponent of course.

My thought on this falls in line with the DM's, that the casting starts at the beginning of the round and spell goes off on their count. Like bodies are always doing something during the fight, not just standing still until their turn to act; people are swinging, ducking, dodging, casting, whatever, it just doesn't produce results until their turn on the initiative.

What is the general consensus on this? I don't want to get involved in the dispute but it seems like it may be heading toward being a game-breaking/ruining issue because the casters feel like the DM is screwing them over playing it the way he has said.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What version of the rules are you playing?

If you're playing Third Edition, your DM is wrong. You do not declare your actions until it is your turn in the initiative count. Any damage you take before that has no impact on your ability to cast a spell on your turn.

 

[Hawken]

It is 3.X edition with some other house rules thrown in.

 

[Twowolves]

In the Rules Forum, the consensus is "Follow the Rules As Written", which your DM is clearly not doing.

 

[mvincent]

if you choose to cast a spell (with a casting time of less than 1 round), you start casting your spell at the beginning of the round and then your spell goes off on your initiative count.

This is his house-rule. Balance-wise it shouldn't be too bad since it applies to both sides (assuming he applies the rule to spell-like abilities also). If you wish to avoid it: simply delay until the beginning of the next round before casting (unless you roll well on initiative).

the only way someone could disrupt their spell is if a ready action is prepared to either attack or counterspell when casting starts--or if they are threatened by a melee opponent of course.

The is how the game is expected to be played, so it probably can't be that problematic. Once players learn how best to ready actions, this becomes a non-issue. Example:
"I ready a <ranged attack> to attack the wizard if he tries to cast a spell... or tries to conduct any other standard or full round action... or tries to move to where I can't attack him..."

the casting starts at the beginning of the round and spell goes off on their count. ... it just doesn't produce results until their turn on the initiative.

Note that in D&D rounds are cyclic. The rules say:
"For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on."

 

[Veril]

The DM is screwing over casters 100%. If he does this and you don't have the best initiative then Delay your action to the next round in ever single combat that happens. Here's the relevant text on delaying.

"Initiative Consequences of Delaying
Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the delayed action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed an action, you don’t get to take a delayed action (though you can delay again).

If you take a delayed action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round. "

By delaying to the next round you get to "start" the round, thus, at a cost of 1 action every combat you can stop the DM screwing you over. The loss of 1 action is worth it. Pretty soon everyone will start delaying. And you will get into delay wars. that's when you see how stupid the DM's ruiling is.

Using these rules, I would ask if they apply to archers also? If so run up to the archer and hit him. If he moves back 5' and shoots ask for an AoO because he is shooting for the whole round, the fact that he is currently not next to you at the initiative count you determine his action shouldn't deny you an AoO for shooting while next to a melee armed opponent.

 

[Infiniti2000]

What is the general consensus on this?

You and the DM are wrong. As with all houserules, it's really a bad idea to spring them on the players during the game rather than prior to the game. For this large a screw-over, however, I hope the DM is giving the spellcasters some other significant benefit.

 

[Delta]

The DM has stated that in a combat round, if you choose to cast a spell (with a casting time of less than 1 round), you start casting your spell at the beginning of the round and then your spell goes off on your initiative count. Players in the game with spellcasting characters (not me), are saying that makes it too difficult for the casters because it lets anyone who sees them and has a higher initiative act against them to disrupt the spell.

No one's explicitly said it yet -- just so you know, this was pretty specifically the rule in prior versions of D&D (1st & 2nd Edition). It was intended to make spellcasting in combat exactly this difficult (in fact, there was no Concentration check to avoid it -- any hit automatically ruined your spell).

3E changed that and made it much easier to cast spells in combat. Your DM has house-ruled the 1E/2E philosophy back into your game.

 

[Slapzilla]

With the delay tactic, initiative changes so often that (as a DM) it can be infuriating. The solution to this is the rule as written. So, start the delay wars, (and do it EVERY round so you ALWAYS go first-no matter what) smack around the ranged attackers, (and perhaps insist on it applying to melee combatants too) and go off on the AoO as much as possible and let us know what happens.

 

[irdeggman]

How does he handle AoO?

Since the casting is "casting" from the start of the round until his turn in the initiative order does he generate an AoO for everyone who threatens at any time during the round before he completes his spell? That is the other result/implication of this house-rule.

A character can now move up to threaten the character and then make an AoO in addition to his normal attack.