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Message: <blockquote data-quote="3catcircus" data-source="post: 1810003" data-attributes="member: 16077">Hmm - If Only My Players Weren't a Bunch of Whinin'...Well - you get the picture...I pointed out this thread to them and every one of my players turned their noses up at it as being too rules lite.  Amazinging, these are the same guys who refuse to play non-d20 games like HARP or non-d20 Call of Cthulhu because they have too many rules...One of my players claim that without the tactical combat system of 3.x, he'd never have started playing D&D again and that 1st edition wasn't much of a game at all because it relied too much on "role" playing as opposed to "roll" playing...  The idea of video game-esque feats and actions appeals to him and one or two of my other players, while my other players are D&D snobs.I'd love to revert to a smaller rules set.  As an example, I am currently running the A1-4 supermodule - even though I used an awesome A1-4 3.0 conversion by Scott Jones, when I did the coversion to 3.5, I ended up with, literally, about a half-ream of paper for all of the NPC stats (and that doesn't include the stats for "standard" monsters contained in the 3.x MM/MM2/FF.)I love the idea of getting rid of the skill system (especially, the Craft/Knowledge/Profession infinite recursion can'o'worms) as it currently stands.  I also love the idea of getting rid of the feat system - especially since it seems like a never ending arms race - by the companies making the products boasting "9 new Prestige classes, 20 new feats!" instead of providing solid "fluff" in their products - and by players' and DMs' use of those feats as point/counter-point in the combat system.  The feat system has gotten to the point of forcing PCs to take a feat to wipe their nose or tie their shoes instead of allowing the DM to give a thumb's up or thumb's down to a player's creative/intelligent/ingenious or stupid/illogical ideas.Even the execution of some of the basic combat rules are unwieldy.  Grappling should be resolved by a single opposed grapple check each round.  Heck, even the rules for charging are crazy - do you *really* need a 7' 7/8" wide path when charging "diagonally" across a grid but a 5' wide path is ok when charging horizontally or vertically?I just find that 3.x has become too complicated and unwieldy - becoming worse than the game it was supposed to replace.Gimme a good game of 1st edition AD&D or Rules Compendium D&D any day - hopefully C&C is today's version of this.</blockquote>

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