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Message: <blockquote data-quote="scadgrad" data-source="post: 2371186" data-attributes="member: 766">There was a very strong story-based theme to AD&D and classic D&D. Sure it involved a lot of combat, but what do you expect given the genre it's coming from. The point is that the game itself was designed to be played without any miniatures at all and it functions quite well like that. I played D&D in one form or the other without minis or so much as a battlemat for basic placement for probably 7 years. How many war games can you name that don't use either chits and hexes or minis of some sort?Even today, I can easily run C&C encounters without even needing the minis. 3.X is hardly different at all from Battletech in that the game assumes that you need minis and a battlemat of some sort to play properly. The wargaming aspect is DESIGNED INTO the game and is a fundamental part of it.Your assertion about 2nd ed completely ignores the fact that most players left not because it became "more roleplaying," but rather because of the ridiculous changes from 1st ed all of which were only enacted as a part of the "De-Gygaxification Agenda" foisted upon us by She Who Must Not Be Named and her toadies at T$R.A good point here that the age-old mechanic can get a bit worn and I'm not taking anything away from GR's T20 which seems an excellent idea, but the source material for D&D is reasonably consistant w/ the "improve over time through acquisition and experience" model. It's just taken to an extreme degree for game purposes. By Crom, Conan has always been about killing other beings and taking their stuff. That's how you become King of Aquilonia. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The level-based mechanic, which I readily admit can be a big problem for some folks, is a simple abstract to carry the game along with some degree of balance (but only some degree).Boy I hope you're wrong about C&C and T20 for that matter. At this point though, the future for C&C looks reasonably bright.</blockquote>

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