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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7421108" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Totally agree with this.</p><p></p><p>Diggers tend to be less problematic as the majority of really good diggers have not traditionally been tamable or even trainable in D&D. They are also by their nature almost impossible to cage and control, and expensive to feed. Charmed diggers represent fairly high level magic and as such are on the level of 'defenses against teleport'. So the only time you really have to worry about diggers in most D&D settings is when wild diggers invade your basement, which is a serious threat, but that's what 'adventurers' are for.</p><p></p><p>Fliers on the other hand have been since the earliest days of D&D called out as tamable or trainable. The costs of acquiring and training fliers are traditionally high, but not so high as to be out of reach of national entities. There are a great many designed to be steeds and pets. They have the advantage over trebuchet's in that it's an easy proposition to arrange that nothing on the ground has the range to reply to your attacks. Even 500' up is sufficiently high altitude that little or nothing is going to bother you, and you can always go higher if need be. It's easy to imagine 50 lb payloads in addition to a rider, which would be equivalent to period bombardment. While beasts couldn't keep up a continuous pace, they probably could at least match the pace of engines and bombards over an equivalent time span. Accuracy wouldn't be great, but it would be comparable to engines, especially if you could employ 'dive bombing'. </p><p></p><p>I've honestly never figured out what the counter measure is short of having an air force of your own. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes and there are a lot of problems with livability with a dungeon if you are talking about housing humans on a long term basis. Ventilation, light, and flooding are potential problems that most proponents of dungeons tend to ignore. Plus, with a dungeon you have limited options in opposing sappers. The dwarves may have all these problems solved, but not necessarily in ways that humans can equal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7421108, member: 4937"] Totally agree with this. Diggers tend to be less problematic as the majority of really good diggers have not traditionally been tamable or even trainable in D&D. They are also by their nature almost impossible to cage and control, and expensive to feed. Charmed diggers represent fairly high level magic and as such are on the level of 'defenses against teleport'. So the only time you really have to worry about diggers in most D&D settings is when wild diggers invade your basement, which is a serious threat, but that's what 'adventurers' are for. Fliers on the other hand have been since the earliest days of D&D called out as tamable or trainable. The costs of acquiring and training fliers are traditionally high, but not so high as to be out of reach of national entities. There are a great many designed to be steeds and pets. They have the advantage over trebuchet's in that it's an easy proposition to arrange that nothing on the ground has the range to reply to your attacks. Even 500' up is sufficiently high altitude that little or nothing is going to bother you, and you can always go higher if need be. It's easy to imagine 50 lb payloads in addition to a rider, which would be equivalent to period bombardment. While beasts couldn't keep up a continuous pace, they probably could at least match the pace of engines and bombards over an equivalent time span. Accuracy wouldn't be great, but it would be comparable to engines, especially if you could employ 'dive bombing'. I've honestly never figured out what the counter measure is short of having an air force of your own. Yes and there are a lot of problems with livability with a dungeon if you are talking about housing humans on a long term basis. Ventilation, light, and flooding are potential problems that most proponents of dungeons tend to ignore. Plus, with a dungeon you have limited options in opposing sappers. The dwarves may have all these problems solved, but not necessarily in ways that humans can equal. [/QUOTE]
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