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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4933436" data-attributes="member: 4937">I agree mostly with your list, but want to make a point of a second division you can make that between 'active' and 'passive' skills.Passive skills may be quite valuable, but there value depends entirely on the DM providing a challenge suitable to that skill.Balance comes up all the time in my game (and apparantly yours), but I've seen some tables where they never roll for it and in which case players from that table might categorize it as a nearly useless skill.  By contrast, an active skill is one where the player can choose to use it to overcome common obstacles even if the DM doesn't provide them.  For example, tumble is a skill a player can build their strategy around because it allows an action to be taken (tumbling past an opponent) in a common situation.  Bluff likewise offers an active ability - the ability to feint.  Sleight of hand gives you the ability to filch objects.  The most powerful skill in the book (with the possible exception of diplomacy) is probably 'Use Magic Device' because it essentially turns anyone who has it into a mini-spellcaster.Some skills straddle the line depending on how common a particular circumstance is at your table.  Even the most active skill can be nerfed by a DM that overuses particular challenges.  Diplomacy is probably the most powerful skill in the game, and is normally an active problem solving skill (along with bluff) that you can use even when your DM doesn't necessarily intend you to solve a problem with diplomacy, but if your DM only presented you with traps, oozes, and mindless undead your diplomacy points would be wasted and you'd be tempted to think of diplomacy as a passive skill.  Move silently is another great problem solving skill that opens up options for you, but it too is worthless if your problems can't hear anyway or can't be bypassed or ambushed.  Still, the usuage comes up often enough that diplomacy and move silently can probably be considered active skills at most tables.Active skills are generally better than passive skills.  Fortunately, d20 offers a fairly short skill list.  Some game systems are packed with lots of obscure passive skills that only come up if the DM provides for them,  d20 only has a few.In my experience the best skills are the active skills and the defensive passive skills: listen, spot, search, sense motive, balance, escape artist, swim, and spellcraft (probably in that order).  Those, along with concentration for spellcasters, help prevent the DM from doing bad things to you. If I could pick my class skills (as an expert) they'd probably be diplomacy, UMD, listen, tumble, bluff, spot, search, sense motive, balance, and escape artist.  Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcane), and disable device wouldn't be that far out of the running.I think I could get by just fine without Hide and I'd miss Jump only rarely.Ubiquitous flight is a serious problem though because it invalidates climb, jump, balance, and in many cases swim and tumble.  In some cases it makes pointless even ride.  All those skills become much more valuable if you are fairly certain you won't end up with the ability to fly as needed.</blockquote>

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