CCR v5 question - Spell casting values?

[harpy]

I've been enjoying for many years the Challenging Challenge Ratings documents. It's been a useful tool to tinker with the system and make more coherent house rules.

I've been going through older posts, but I haven't found a discussion on the spell casting values.

On page nineteen of the v5 pdf it breaks down the spell casting values for the various classes, wizards are .44 per level, clerics are .38 per level, etc.

When you multiply that out to 20 levels, a wizard is getting 8.8 for all of its spellcasting.

What I'm stumped by is deconstructing this value. Where is the 8.8 coming from?

If I go over to page eight and play around with the formulas for spell-like abilities I can't seem to reach the 8.8 for the wizard. I've set up a spread sheet, plugged in all the numbers, including the spells-per-day data from the SRD, but I can't seem to nail down that 8.8. I assume the 8.8 is an average value over 20 levels, and not the true value at level 20.

I know there are lots of things to consider, such as the volume of spells different classes get, along with their diversity and potency, so perhaps other factors are being inserted in along with the spell-like-abilities formula, but I'm stumped as to how to sort it out.

I know this kind of necro's some very old discussions, but if anyone has any insight on how the integrated spellcasting was assessed I'd love to hear it.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there harpy!

Well the funny thing is that I worked out the values for spellcasting and then lost the pages where I had written it down and couldn't replicate the equation.

It was something to do with the number of spells you gained per level and the number of listed spells in the PHB for that class...divided by 20...and something else that I can't remember.

I'm sure it all made sense at the time.

If you total all the spell levels for wizard in the PHB and it works out to be about 1760 then thats probably what was going on.

 

[harpy]

If you total all the spell levels for wizard in the PHB and it works out to be about 1760 then thats probably what was going on.

Ah, ok... that might indeed be it. That makes a lot of sense.

I had tediously counted out the number of spells on each casters list, but I didn't factor in how that all shook out with spell levels. Just from the number of spells on each list, it's obvious that the Wizard/Sorcerer outpaces everyone else, but it looks like I wasn't being as granular as one needs to be.

Thanks!

<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

 

[harpy]

Ok, I'm squinting hard and mashing my fingers to the keyboard while using the spread sheet...

So it looks like you add up the levels, get 1760 total levels for the wizard.

Then, since you're just doing a benchmark, you're spreading this value across the class as a whole.

So you divide by 10, since there are 10 spell levels (including 0 level spells), which brings it down to 176.

Finally, you divide it out across 20 levels, which gets you to 8.8.

That's great, it clears that up. The thing that seems to be missing is factoring the number of spells you can cast per day.

From reading old posts, you'd mentioned that with the v6 of CCR you realized how much more potent the spellcasters were over the martial characters. Perhaps the spells per day factor is what would have boosted their overall value even higher?
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there harpy!

Ok, I'm squinting hard and mashing my fingers to the keyboard while using the spread sheet...

So it looks like you add up the levels, get 1760 total levels for the wizard.

Then, since you're just doing a benchmark, you're spreading this value across the class as a whole.

So you divide by 10, since there are 10 spell levels (including 0 level spells), which brings it down to 176.

Finally, you divide it out across 20 levels, which gets you to 8.8.

That's great, it clears that up. The thing that seems to be missing is factoring the number of spells you can cast per day.

Probably...like I said, if I could remember it I would have posted it online.

From reading old posts, you'd mentioned that with the v6 of CCR you realized how much more potent the spellcasters were over the martial characters. Perhaps the spells per day factor is what would have boosted their overall value even higher?

I think the change was when I factored (or refactored) the negative effects of iteritive attacks and it seemed to illustrate a greater disparity between the martial and spellcasting classes.

My revised Fighter, Monk and Barbarian classes on the Immortals Handbook website go a long way to redress the imbalance.

Immortality

Immortality

Immortality