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Ceramic DM - Spring 2005 (Late Bloomer) - We have a winner.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hellefire" data-source="post: 2344544" data-attributes="member: 28129"><p>Berandor:</p><p> </p><p>[sblock]</p><p>Quote:</p><p>'Cassie transported herself into Sharon’s mindscape. That was the good news.' - I would add something positive to this to emphasize it is good news. </p><p> </p><p>The "good news" is that Sharon isn't gone yet. Cassie having transported herself to the mindscape is just a part of that thought. Or would: "...so Sharon's sould hadn't departed yet. That was the good news. Cassie had transported herself to Sharon's mindscape." be better? </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>My main problem with it was the lack of clarity on which part was the good news. With a VERY simple sentence, you can avoid specifying what you are refering to as 'good'. For example: 'I passed my exam. That was the good news.' Now even some simple sentences can be confusing, for example: 'I ate a warm breakfast this morning. That was the good news.' Is it good that you ate breakfast, or that you ate it in the morning, or that it was watm, or some combination thereof? If there was information around that sentence refering to eating cold food all the time or not eating much lately or never having time to eat breakfast in the morning, then it would be more clear. In the specific case of your story, I wasn't sure if it was Cassie's ability to transport in general, or her ability to transport into Sharon's mindscape specifically that was good, and why (is there a chance of transporting somewhere else on accident?). The 'good; part was refering to Sharon's mind still being there to have a mindscape. I would add something to make that more clear. 'If there is a mindscape, there must be a mind.' or 'Her soul must still be here.' or even just add 'was able to,' in order to emphasize that the good part came from the possibility that she might not be able to. I think adding why is a good idea too, in a lot of cases. Letting the reader figure that out for themselves is a good thing as well, but I missed the connotation myself until you explained it. Maybe just my sleep-deprived mind though <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Quote:</p><p>'After a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie had invoked the soul-joining spell. It had worked, so Sharon’s soul had not yet departed.' - Should be using past simple tense instead of past perfect. Generally perfect tenses are used to emphasize that one activity is completed, which leads to or explains another activity. </p><p> </p><p>Since we're already in the mindscape, this whole paragraph has already happened. It's probably an awkward style, but is it still wrong then? </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Quote:</p><p>'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie had found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' - Back to the past perfect thing. </p><p> </p><p>See above <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> it's already happened. </p><p>Past perfect is used to show that an activity is completed. It is generally used for timing. It is only necessary to use when emphasizing the time of something else happening, or emphasizing the completion of an activity. In all cases it must be accompanied by another activity or event that occurs afterward the completed activity (that's a rule part). When emphasizing, you should stick to emphasizing one thing at a time (that's a style thing). For example (about emphasizing, not about past perfect): That guy is amazingly strong as I found out in an extremely funny way. This is technically correct. However, most people won't be sure if you are trying to point out how strong the guy was or how you found out about it. Even if they can deduce from your next sentence which you were trying to emphasize more, you still end up sounding like an 8 year-old on crack. Now back to past perfect.</p><p> </p><p>'After a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie had invoked the soul-joining spell. It had worked, so Sharon’s soul had not yet departed.'</p><p> </p><p>The first sentence is technically incorrect, because the clause holding the past perfect-tensed verb must be followed by another activity or event. In this case the prayer happens prior to the invoking. It could be 'After a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie invoked the soul-joining spell.' This simply shows a sequence of events. Or, it could be 'After she had said a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie invoked the soul-joining spell.' This shows a sequence of events and emphasizes the fact that Cassie said the prayer first (emphasizing that she felt the prayer was needed and must be completed to perform the second action).</p><p> </p><p>The second sentence is also technically incorrect, for the same reason. In addition, it tries to emphasize two different events, which is very bad form (and may also be technically incorrect, though I'm not sure). It should be 'It worked, so Sharon’s soul had not yet departed.' This shows that it working was a direct result of Sharon's soul still being present.</p><p> </p><p>'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie had found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' </p><p> </p><p>Same as second sentence above. If it had been written 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie had found herself in this darkness, and was unable to see her hand before her eyes.', it would still be incorrect from a style standpoint, but at least the second instance of past perfect would be followed by an affected result. It should be something like 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie found herself in this darkness, and was unable to see her hand before her eyes.' or 'The spell took effect. Cassie found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' or even 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' Do NOT use two past perfect clauses in the same sentence unless they are at an even level (both happening simultaneously or independent of each other) and with a result that depends on both happening/being completed. For example: 'After I had finished my homework and Amanda had eaten dinner, we met for a movie.' There is a little leeway here, for example: 'After I had cooked and my wife had eaten we went to the party.' Obviously the cooking must have happened before the eating, but I am not emphasizing that my wife ate after I cooked and that we went to the party after she ate. I am emphasizing that after I cooked and she ate, then we went to the party. Does that make sense?</p><p> </p><p>Hope this helps! I'll try to look up some different books which state 'official' rules, but don't time me on it. I already have a billion things to do.</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p> </p><p>I hope that when my gf and baby and I get back to Poland, we can make a road trip sometime (or you can) and we can get together for a pint!</p><p> </p><p>Aaron</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hellefire, post: 2344544, member: 28129"] Berandor: [sblock] Quote: 'Cassie transported herself into Sharon’s mindscape. That was the good news.' - I would add something positive to this to emphasize it is good news. The "good news" is that Sharon isn't gone yet. Cassie having transported herself to the mindscape is just a part of that thought. Or would: "...so Sharon's sould hadn't departed yet. That was the good news. Cassie had transported herself to Sharon's mindscape." be better? My main problem with it was the lack of clarity on which part was the good news. With a VERY simple sentence, you can avoid specifying what you are refering to as 'good'. For example: 'I passed my exam. That was the good news.' Now even some simple sentences can be confusing, for example: 'I ate a warm breakfast this morning. That was the good news.' Is it good that you ate breakfast, or that you ate it in the morning, or that it was watm, or some combination thereof? If there was information around that sentence refering to eating cold food all the time or not eating much lately or never having time to eat breakfast in the morning, then it would be more clear. In the specific case of your story, I wasn't sure if it was Cassie's ability to transport in general, or her ability to transport into Sharon's mindscape specifically that was good, and why (is there a chance of transporting somewhere else on accident?). The 'good; part was refering to Sharon's mind still being there to have a mindscape. I would add something to make that more clear. 'If there is a mindscape, there must be a mind.' or 'Her soul must still be here.' or even just add 'was able to,' in order to emphasize that the good part came from the possibility that she might not be able to. I think adding why is a good idea too, in a lot of cases. Letting the reader figure that out for themselves is a good thing as well, but I missed the connotation myself until you explained it. Maybe just my sleep-deprived mind though :). Quote: 'After a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie had invoked the soul-joining spell. It had worked, so Sharon’s soul had not yet departed.' - Should be using past simple tense instead of past perfect. Generally perfect tenses are used to emphasize that one activity is completed, which leads to or explains another activity. Since we're already in the mindscape, this whole paragraph has already happened. It's probably an awkward style, but is it still wrong then? Quote: 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie had found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' - Back to the past perfect thing. See above :) it's already happened. Past perfect is used to show that an activity is completed. It is generally used for timing. It is only necessary to use when emphasizing the time of something else happening, or emphasizing the completion of an activity. In all cases it must be accompanied by another activity or event that occurs afterward the completed activity (that's a rule part). When emphasizing, you should stick to emphasizing one thing at a time (that's a style thing). For example (about emphasizing, not about past perfect): That guy is amazingly strong as I found out in an extremely funny way. This is technically correct. However, most people won't be sure if you are trying to point out how strong the guy was or how you found out about it. Even if they can deduce from your next sentence which you were trying to emphasize more, you still end up sounding like an 8 year-old on crack. Now back to past perfect. 'After a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie had invoked the soul-joining spell. It had worked, so Sharon’s soul had not yet departed.' The first sentence is technically incorrect, because the clause holding the past perfect-tensed verb must be followed by another activity or event. In this case the prayer happens prior to the invoking. It could be 'After a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie invoked the soul-joining spell.' This simply shows a sequence of events. Or, it could be 'After she had said a prayer to Zephyr, the west wind, Cassie invoked the soul-joining spell.' This shows a sequence of events and emphasizes the fact that Cassie said the prayer first (emphasizing that she felt the prayer was needed and must be completed to perform the second action). The second sentence is also technically incorrect, for the same reason. In addition, it tries to emphasize two different events, which is very bad form (and may also be technically incorrect, though I'm not sure). It should be 'It worked, so Sharon’s soul had not yet departed.' This shows that it working was a direct result of Sharon's soul still being present. 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie had found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' Same as second sentence above. If it had been written 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie had found herself in this darkness, and was unable to see her hand before her eyes.', it would still be incorrect from a style standpoint, but at least the second instance of past perfect would be followed by an affected result. It should be something like 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie found herself in this darkness, and was unable to see her hand before her eyes.' or 'The spell took effect. Cassie found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' or even 'When the spell had taken effect, Cassie found herself in this darkness, unable to see her hand before her eyes.' Do NOT use two past perfect clauses in the same sentence unless they are at an even level (both happening simultaneously or independent of each other) and with a result that depends on both happening/being completed. For example: 'After I had finished my homework and Amanda had eaten dinner, we met for a movie.' There is a little leeway here, for example: 'After I had cooked and my wife had eaten we went to the party.' Obviously the cooking must have happened before the eating, but I am not emphasizing that my wife ate after I cooked and that we went to the party after she ate. I am emphasizing that after I cooked and she ate, then we went to the party. Does that make sense? Hope this helps! I'll try to look up some different books which state 'official' rules, but don't time me on it. I already have a billion things to do. [/sblock] I hope that when my gf and baby and I get back to Poland, we can make a road trip sometime (or you can) and we can get together for a pint! Aaron [/QUOTE]
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