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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 5376813" data-attributes="member: 4303">A move to a system which is point-buy, or even 4d6, discard and arrange as you see fit, is the largest contributor to the perceived irrelevance of Charisma. If the game demanded random stat generation in order then, obviously, this conversation wouldn't be happening in quite the same way. I'm not necessarily an advocate of completely random stat generation, but I think the degree of control offered to players with the advent of 3e was not supported by the mechanical applications of the various abilities and more thought should have gone into all ability score remits.For example, I don't like that Strength automatically offers a bonus to hit and damage in melee; I'd rather that Strength can be leveraged with the right training - this could be represented by either a class ability or a feat. Likewise for many other applications of other abilities.I don't like that ability scores automatically offer bonuses to skills, and I'd rather they act as limiting factors to skills in some way as I noted above - e.g. your capacity to tumble is limited by your Dex, rather than Dex offers a bonus to your ability to tumble.I think by calling out Cha that this illustrates the biggest problems with the system as written; but the problem is not limited to Cha.Ideally, each ability score might govern a single automatic benefit; other benefits should only be 'unlocked' through experience or training - represented by either levels in a particular class or through feats.</blockquote>

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