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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5377321" data-attributes="member: 4937">Ok, that much I agree with.  Because Charisma bundles a bunch of things together, physical attractiveness isn't necessarily a universal feature of high charisma.But, if we have a Comliness score, then that is exactly what we are expressing.  My point is that neither having Comliness be absolute or physical attractiveness be relative is objectively right when it comes to talking about fantasy. Possibly.  I think you have the wrong idea of what it means to be the 'beauty god'.  It doesn't mean you are someone who is beautiful and that you have an expert opinion on it.  Still, there is a measure of subjectiveness in this, to the extent that the question then becomes 'How highly do we prize this attribute of beauty?'  Is it something that you can live without, or is it something which - when missing - has as tangible effects on the environment as missing water or oxygen.  The question for the hideous race isn't so much whether or not they are beautiful, since objectively they aren't, but whether they should care and perhaps even if they can avoid caring.  Personally, I find both caring and not caring potentially interesting.   I find it interesting that a race may see themselves as objectively hideous and care, and I find it interesting that a race may see themselves as objectively hideous and find this irrelevant, amusing, or proof of the valuelessness of beauty.  Either metaphor for me is an interesting idea to explore. Which is fine (and for the record I agree as well), but let's suppose for a moment that that is not what attractiveness means.   There is nothing wrong with supposing and exploring the idea of that attractiveness is a universal idea that we can inspect and measure with absolute certainty the way we measure width, mass, or temperature. That is not something I think you can conclude.   I think that depends on your previous axiomatic assertion being true, and it can be invalidated simply by assuming a universe of different axioms.</blockquote>

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