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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6347703" data-attributes="member: 42582">From reading that thread, it seems that the reason attack bonus doesn't factor significantly into DPR is because you already hit pretty reliably from mid-levels, especially with advantage.But that conclusion was reached on the assumption of stat-bumping to 20 - so I'm not sure that it shows that it makes no difference whether your attack stat is 16 or 20. Furthermore, those stat-bumps add to damage too, which does matter to DPR. So I didn't come off that thread with the impression that bounded accuracy means that there is little at stake between a 16 and a 20 attack stat.Well, I think it matters to play. In at least two ways.First, the CHA paladin doesn't have a high STR, and so doesn't perform feats of STR (contrast with a fighter, say). But does perform feats of intimidation or diplomacy (still conrasts with a fighter).In a system which emphasises the mechanical input into action resolution - and I don't think anyone disputes that 4e was such a system - these differences in mechanical build matter at the table. They shape the fiction that builds up around, and is associated with the two characters.Second, I tend to find that build influences play in more indirect ways. If the flavour of the character - read from stats + the rest of build - presents the character a certain way (eg the Lancelot/Galahad contrast that I have drawn upthread), then this will infuence the way that the character is played by his/her player. This is also likely to interact with the outputs of point one above, the two combining to create a certain impression of the character being one thing rather than another.I would be surprised if at least some people don't see the difference between STR and DEX fighters/rogues in the same way. (Ie not just that finesse lets you drop one combat stat, but that it also shapes the way the character is played, both via mechanical outputs and also helping to direct the player's inputs.)A devout fighter will tend not to have access to Lay on Hands - the quintessential paladin ability - nor to buffs vs demons and undead. Nor other divine/inspiration stuff.In the 4e PHB there are actually 4 builds that allows for a STR-based, non-skirmishing warrior: fighter, cleric, paladin and warlord. STR cleric and STR paladin obviously overlap quite a bit, and both overlap with the warlord. (The STR paladin I built for  [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s online game was actually warlord multi-class and a Knight Commander, which is a warlord paragon path.) The fighter, at least in traditional D&D form, has the least overlap with the rest because of the lack of inspirational mechanics of any sort.The scope for an inspirational fighter in 5e is yet to emerge, but I'm not holding my breath - especially as the reversion to pre-4e style hit point generation mechanics makes CON so important for a fighter, making it much harder to sustain CHA as a strong stat.As for whether a 5e war cleric or paladin fills the "divine grace" niche - perhaps, but those characters are also likely to fill the "physically strong" niche, which means the contrast that I enjoyed in 4e still won't be there.I should add - I wouldn't expect this to really move anyone else. And of all the reasons that bear upon my overall likelihood of playing 5, this is one of the least significance. But someone asked upthread what was the point of the CHA paladin, and so I explained what I liked about it.</blockquote>

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