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<blockquote data-quote="Prestidigitalis" data-source="post: 4618534" data-attributes="member: 74496">Let's say that the DM has created a campaign where stealth will be essential for some reason.&nbsp; Maybe there is a need to infiltrate army camps or fortresses, or perhaps there is a Thievish cast to the setting.&nbsp; Maybe the world suffers under the iron fist of a tyrant and it's better not to look like an organized group of adventurers.&nbsp; Whatever the reason, what would be a good, balanced party that could all sneak around successfully pretty much whenever they weren't sleeping or swilling ale at the tavern, and yet also survive a pitched battle when they have to? I'm talking about physical sneaking, i.e. Stealth, with perhaps some need for Acrobatics and Thievery to get one in and out of places that otherwise can't be approached without notice.&nbsp; Social skills such as Bluff and Streetwise could be handy too, in order to get information without attracting attention.&nbsp; Bailout abilities such as fast movement and ability to foil trackers could be useful too, in the event that the sneaking fails, as it is bound to do occasionally.So.&nbsp; Stealth is easy.&nbsp; Balance is easy.&nbsp; But how to get both?&nbsp; that is the question.One approach would be to have one uber-sneaker in the group to act as scout for the most critical missions, and then judge the rest of the group by its least stealthy member: the one that would most likely give the game away in more mundane situations.&nbsp; The latter standard could be raised to a high level by these three &quot;rules&quot;:&nbsp; 1. Everyone has Stealth as a trained skill2. Everyone has Stealth as a Skill Focus as early as possible3. Everyone has a high Dexterity score, and not much of an armor penalty.The task then, would be to achieve some sort of balance.&nbsp; Probably the easiest way to do that is by mixing up the classes.&nbsp; So, you can't just have a party of Rangers and Rogues.&nbsp; Instead, something like this:Ranger -- archeryRogue&nbsp;&nbsp; -- anyCleric with Ranger MC -- &quot;ranged&quot; laserFighter&nbsp; -- TempestController -- ?&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't have DDI so I'm not sure -- would Druid be better than Wizard? If not, maybe skip the Controller and double up on Leader or Defender.The Ranger or Rogue would be the best candidate for the uber-sneaker.&nbsp; Whichever one worked best with a race that gave an additional +2 racial bonus to Stealth would have a slight advantage, but as far as I know the only such races are Drow and Kobold -- not conventional picks for most of us.I just have time for this much, to start the ball rolling.&nbsp; Feel free to chime in with feats and magic items that could raise the standard to make this party into a bunch of Invisible Ninjas.&nbsp; But remember, this is about sneaking ALL the time, not just the occasional epic sneak.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Prestidigitalis, post: 4618534, member: 74496"] Let's say that the DM has created a campaign where stealth will be essential for some reason. Maybe there is a need to infiltrate army camps or fortresses, or perhaps there is a Thievish cast to the setting. Maybe the world suffers under the iron fist of a tyrant and it's better not to look like an organized group of adventurers. Whatever the reason, what would be a good, balanced party that could all sneak around successfully pretty much whenever they weren't sleeping or swilling ale at the tavern, and yet also survive a pitched battle when they have to? I'm talking about physical sneaking, i.e. Stealth, with perhaps some need for Acrobatics and Thievery to get one in and out of places that otherwise can't be approached without notice. Social skills such as Bluff and Streetwise could be handy too, in order to get information without attracting attention. Bailout abilities such as fast movement and ability to foil trackers could be useful too, in the event that the sneaking fails, as it is bound to do occasionally. So. Stealth is easy. Balance is easy. But how to get both? that is the question. One approach would be to have one uber-sneaker in the group to act as scout for the most critical missions, and then judge the rest of the group by its least stealthy member: the one that would most likely give the game away in more mundane situations. The latter standard could be raised to a high level by these three "rules": 1. Everyone has Stealth as a trained skill 2. Everyone has Stealth as a Skill Focus as early as possible 3. Everyone has a high Dexterity score, and not much of an armor penalty. The task then, would be to achieve some sort of balance. Probably the easiest way to do that is by mixing up the classes. So, you can't just have a party of Rangers and Rogues. Instead, something like this: Ranger -- archery Rogue -- any Cleric with Ranger MC -- "ranged" laser Fighter -- Tempest Controller -- ? I don't have DDI so I'm not sure -- would Druid be better than Wizard? If not, maybe skip the Controller and double up on Leader or Defender. The Ranger or Rogue would be the best candidate for the uber-sneaker. Whichever one worked best with a race that gave an additional +2 racial bonus to Stealth would have a slight advantage, but as far as I know the only such races are Drow and Kobold -- not conventional picks for most of us. I just have time for this much, to start the ball rolling. Feel free to chime in with feats and magic items that could raise the standard to make this party into a bunch of Invisible Ninjas. But remember, this is about sneaking ALL the time, not just the occasional epic sneak. [/QUOTE]

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