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<blockquote data-quote="Danceofmasks" data-source="post: 4619677" data-attributes="member: 70765">Prestidigitalis, there's more to sneaking than a stealth mod!Perhaps it would help if you specified a level for the characters in question, since some builds may be good at sneaking at mid heroic or so, but will start off slow.Also, may want to specify which races are allowed ... 'cos bugbears and drow are there with a dex bonus and +2 racial bonus to stealth.In fact, if bugbears were available, that would be an instant win for your defender and leader roles!Stick 'em in scale, pump dex, racial stealth bonus, training &amp; focus, you're golden.4e being what it is and all, some races &amp; classes just aren't made for it.&nbsp;Having said that, there are other available options than making a stealth roll.Veteran's armor + Invisibility, for instance.&nbsp;Since leaders seem to be the trickiest to build (apart from the aforementioned non-PC available bugbear battle cleric), I'll give it a go.Drow Bard (FRPG &amp; Dragon article)10 18 13 8 11 18With an 18 dex, hide is better than scale for purposes of AC, but weaker in terms of stealth modifier.Going with longsword, light shield, leather.Feats by level: Warrior of the Wild (1), Skill Focus (2)Stealth mod by level: +11 (1), +15 (2)Good enough?&nbsp;Hmm ... I guess for a defender, you could just do another Drow with the same statline and feats, and be a paladin. Wear scale and light shield, and you'd have the same stealth mod.&nbsp;Tiefling war wizard has int 18 dex 16, so would have stealth mods of +10 (1), +14 (2).&nbsp;Throw in a couple more drow to be strikers.Any PHB striker will do, though warlock will have to make do with dex 18 rather than 20, but makes up for it with perpetual concealment.&nbsp;That party has primary attack stats of 18+, minimum stealth mods of +10 at 1st level, and one character (drow rogue) is an optimum build, artful dodger with dex 20 cha 16.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Danceofmasks, post: 4619677, member: 70765"] Prestidigitalis, there's more to sneaking than a stealth mod! Perhaps it would help if you specified a level for the characters in question, since some builds may be good at sneaking at mid heroic or so, but will start off slow. Also, may want to specify which races are allowed ... 'cos bugbears and drow are there with a dex bonus and +2 racial bonus to stealth. In fact, if bugbears were available, that would be an instant win for your defender and leader roles! Stick 'em in scale, pump dex, racial stealth bonus, training & focus, you're golden. 4e being what it is and all, some races & classes just aren't made for it. Having said that, there are other available options than making a stealth roll. Veteran's armor + Invisibility, for instance. Since leaders seem to be the trickiest to build (apart from the aforementioned non-PC available bugbear battle cleric), I'll give it a go. Drow Bard (FRPG & Dragon article) 10 18 13 8 11 18 With an 18 dex, hide is better than scale for purposes of AC, but weaker in terms of stealth modifier. Going with longsword, light shield, leather. Feats by level: Warrior of the Wild (1), Skill Focus (2) Stealth mod by level: +11 (1), +15 (2) Good enough? Hmm ... I guess for a defender, you could just do another Drow with the same statline and feats, and be a paladin. Wear scale and light shield, and you'd have the same stealth mod. Tiefling war wizard has int 18 dex 16, so would have stealth mods of +10 (1), +14 (2). Throw in a couple more drow to be strikers. Any PHB striker will do, though warlock will have to make do with dex 18 rather than 20, but makes up for it with perpetual concealment. That party has primary attack stats of 18+, minimum stealth mods of +10 at 1st level, and one character (drow rogue) is an optimum build, artful dodger with dex 20 cha 16. [/QUOTE]

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