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<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 6950508" data-attributes="member: 6683613">In Fate, you can declare that your character sees an old friend when they walk into the bar. This pretty obviously isn't &quot;how their world actually operates&quot;: your character cannot psychically summon old friends at will. But before you start casting aspersions, you need to realize the game isn't claiming that they can. In a narrativist game like Fate, the rules serve a fundamentally different purpose than they do in D&amp;D. They do not spell out characters' in-universe capabilities, but rather players' narrative privileges. You the player are not so much your character's actor as your character's author. Of course, you're free to critique a narrativist game from that perspective -- by no means do all games pull this off equally well. But critiquing Fate from a D&amp;D-style simulationist perspective is like critiquing a submarine for not having a sunroof.Now, 13th Age takes a hybrid approach between D&amp;D-style simulationism and Fate-style narrativism. In my opinion, this just means it doesn't function very well as either sort of game: it's a submarine that does have a sunroof. But others may see it more as chocolate and peanut butter. Genre preference is a simple matter of taste.&quot;How can I advance the narrative in an appealing and verisimilitudinous way?&quot; is a meaningful decision. Writers of fiction make it all the time. The reward for success is a good story; the consequence for failure is a bad one. You might want to argue that fiction writing is not a &quot;game&quot;. But think ahead: even if you can make that case persuasively, what will you have proven? If narrativist games aren't strictly speaking &quot;games&quot;, do they vanish in a puff of logic? Do the game police come and take them away? Are they suddenly no longer fun? In short: who cares?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 6950508, member: 6683613"] In Fate, you can declare that your character sees an old friend when they walk into the bar. This pretty obviously isn't "how their world actually operates": your character cannot psychically summon old friends at will. But before you start casting aspersions, you need to realize [I]the game isn't claiming that they can[/I]. In a narrativist game like Fate, the rules serve a fundamentally different purpose than they do in D&D. They do not spell out characters' in-universe capabilities, but rather players' narrative privileges. You the player are not so much your character's [I]actor[/I] as your character's [I]author[/I]. Of course, you're free to critique a narrativist game from that perspective -- by no means do all games pull this off equally well. But critiquing Fate from a D&D-style simulationist perspective is like critiquing a submarine for not having a sunroof. Now, 13th Age takes a hybrid approach between D&D-style simulationism and Fate-style narrativism. In my opinion, this just means it doesn't function very well as either sort of game: it's a submarine that [I]does[/I] have a sunroof. But others may see it more as chocolate and peanut butter. Genre preference is a simple matter of taste. "How can I advance the narrative in an appealing and verisimilitudinous way?" is a meaningful decision. Writers of fiction make it all the time. The reward for success is a good story; the consequence for failure is a bad one. You might want to argue that fiction writing is not a "game". But think ahead: even if you can make that case persuasively, what will you have proven? If narrativist games aren't strictly speaking "games", do they vanish in a puff of logic? Do the game police come and take them away? Are they suddenly no longer fun? In short: who cares? [/QUOTE]

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