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<blockquote data-quote="theNater" data-source="post: 4300366" data-attributes="member: 62560"><p>Glad I could drag you into discussion! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> </p><p></p><p>So what I'm reading as the important parts are:</p><p></p><p>1. Know lots of stuff.</p><p>2. Be able to aquire more knowledge through mundane means.</p><p>3. Be able to get by obstacles through stealth and skill, rather than violence.</p><p>4. Have lots of spell effects.</p><p>5. Be able to aquire more knowledge through magical means.</p><p>6. Wield a rapier with deadly skill.</p><p>7. Be light enough on your feet to avoid most blows.</p><p>8. Be able to exhort troops to greater valor.</p><p></p><p>1-3 are covered by skills. There are five knowledge skills(Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Nature, Religion), five social skills(Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, Intimidate, and Streetwise), and three relevant obstacle-beating skills(Stealth, Perception, and Thievery). You'll want to pick and choose what is most relevant, but with the wide range of skills you want, most classes will provide a full selection of them as class skills. A character can begin with 3-7 trained skills, depending on class and race. You'll need to pick up the others you want with the Skill Training feat, which will take a while if you want all 13 of those skills. If you trim it down(character seems urban, maybe Dungeoneering and Nature can go, for example) you can be doing most of what you want very quickly.</p><p></p><p>4&5 live largely in the realm of rituals. That's another feat for Ritual Caster, then you can just start shelling out the cash for the ritual books.</p><p></p><p>6 starts with the Weapon Proficiency feat, as no class is proficient in the rapier by default. To use it with your speed and charm, you need weapon powers based off of dex and cha. That's rogue or paladin.</p><p></p><p>7 means good AC and reflex defense. Rogues do this by high dex and class bonus; paladins do it with heavy armor and shields, which can be reflavored(you are slow because the formalized fencing moves that keep you safe reduce your overall speed, your off-hand is behind you giving you balance assistance).</p><p></p><p>8 is leader abilities. Clerics and warlords get lots of them, paladins get a few, like Wrath of the Gods(6). If you're taking rogue, I'd recommend multiclassing into cleric for this; it provides training in Religion, which is one of the possible prerequisites for Ritual Caster, and a skill you probably want anyway. If you're taking paladin, you can save your multiclassing for another class, which can provide other spell effects you want.</p><p></p><p>Only characters who are primarily wizards have to make daily spell selections. Everyone else has all of the spells/abilities they know available every day.</p><p></p><p>Diplomacy and Bluff are great for the social skill challenges suggested by this approach.</p><p></p><p>Paladins and clerics both have access to a few blasts, so you're good with either approach here.</p><p></p><p>I don't know any abilities offhand that damage targets that strike you, but paladins and clerics have the ability to create zones(often as side effects of their blasts) which damage enemies in them; you can damage enemies fighting you by staying in the zone. If you've taken the paladin option, you can multiclass into warlock for Armor of Agathys(1) which damages enemies starting their turn near you.</p><p></p><p>High Intimidate and Diplomacy skills should have you covered here.</p><p></p><p>The rogue/cleric build has good strike-and-dash, the paladin is better at toe-to-toe. Boots of Striding and the paragon feat Fleet Footed can increase your speed by 1 each.</p><p></p><p>For short range, the paladin/warlock gets a handful of fly/teleport abilities. Long range and interplanar are managed by rituals.</p><p></p><p>The 4th edition spell list has been strongly split so that combat spells and non-combat spells aren't competing for space on your list of spells known. Non-combat spells are mostly rituals, while spells that have some minor effects in combat are mostly utility powers, as distinct from attack powers.</p><p></p><p>There is an assumption that most of the creatures you meet in combat will be deceased by the end of the combat, so using an attack power for a permanent effect seems kind of pointless. Non-combat influence is generally a result of skill usage, rather than a single casting of a single spell. There are some utility powers that give bonuses to appropriate skills, however(Astral Speech(paladin 2) gives a +4 to diplomacy for one conversation, Master of Deceit(rogue 2) permits you to reroll one bluff check per encounter, etc.).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="theNater, post: 4300366, member: 62560"] Glad I could drag you into discussion! :cool: So what I'm reading as the important parts are: 1. Know lots of stuff. 2. Be able to aquire more knowledge through mundane means. 3. Be able to get by obstacles through stealth and skill, rather than violence. 4. Have lots of spell effects. 5. Be able to aquire more knowledge through magical means. 6. Wield a rapier with deadly skill. 7. Be light enough on your feet to avoid most blows. 8. Be able to exhort troops to greater valor. 1-3 are covered by skills. There are five knowledge skills(Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Nature, Religion), five social skills(Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, Intimidate, and Streetwise), and three relevant obstacle-beating skills(Stealth, Perception, and Thievery). You'll want to pick and choose what is most relevant, but with the wide range of skills you want, most classes will provide a full selection of them as class skills. A character can begin with 3-7 trained skills, depending on class and race. You'll need to pick up the others you want with the Skill Training feat, which will take a while if you want all 13 of those skills. If you trim it down(character seems urban, maybe Dungeoneering and Nature can go, for example) you can be doing most of what you want very quickly. 4&5 live largely in the realm of rituals. That's another feat for Ritual Caster, then you can just start shelling out the cash for the ritual books. 6 starts with the Weapon Proficiency feat, as no class is proficient in the rapier by default. To use it with your speed and charm, you need weapon powers based off of dex and cha. That's rogue or paladin. 7 means good AC and reflex defense. Rogues do this by high dex and class bonus; paladins do it with heavy armor and shields, which can be reflavored(you are slow because the formalized fencing moves that keep you safe reduce your overall speed, your off-hand is behind you giving you balance assistance). 8 is leader abilities. Clerics and warlords get lots of them, paladins get a few, like Wrath of the Gods(6). If you're taking rogue, I'd recommend multiclassing into cleric for this; it provides training in Religion, which is one of the possible prerequisites for Ritual Caster, and a skill you probably want anyway. If you're taking paladin, you can save your multiclassing for another class, which can provide other spell effects you want. Only characters who are primarily wizards have to make daily spell selections. Everyone else has all of the spells/abilities they know available every day. Diplomacy and Bluff are great for the social skill challenges suggested by this approach. Paladins and clerics both have access to a few blasts, so you're good with either approach here. I don't know any abilities offhand that damage targets that strike you, but paladins and clerics have the ability to create zones(often as side effects of their blasts) which damage enemies in them; you can damage enemies fighting you by staying in the zone. If you've taken the paladin option, you can multiclass into warlock for Armor of Agathys(1) which damages enemies starting their turn near you. High Intimidate and Diplomacy skills should have you covered here. The rogue/cleric build has good strike-and-dash, the paladin is better at toe-to-toe. Boots of Striding and the paragon feat Fleet Footed can increase your speed by 1 each. For short range, the paladin/warlock gets a handful of fly/teleport abilities. Long range and interplanar are managed by rituals. The 4th edition spell list has been strongly split so that combat spells and non-combat spells aren't competing for space on your list of spells known. Non-combat spells are mostly rituals, while spells that have some minor effects in combat are mostly utility powers, as distinct from attack powers. There is an assumption that most of the creatures you meet in combat will be deceased by the end of the combat, so using an attack power for a permanent effect seems kind of pointless. Non-combat influence is generally a result of skill usage, rather than a single casting of a single spell. There are some utility powers that give bonuses to appropriate skills, however(Astral Speech(paladin 2) gives a +4 to diplomacy for one conversation, Master of Deceit(rogue 2) permits you to reroll one bluff check per encounter, etc.). [/QUOTE]
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