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<blockquote data-quote="BookTenTiger" data-source="post: 8835213" data-attributes="member: 6685541">I agree that challenge includes a risk of failure. I also think that challenge requires clear goals.To me, though, the greatest challenges in a campaign don't come from a single fight, but from overcoming greater difficulties. In fact, the &quot;boss fights&quot; in my campaigns are usually not challenging because the players have put so much work into planning, gathering resources, and coming in strong.And yet, overall, the adventure will still be recognized as a great challenge.For example, in my last campaign, the players came to Umber Dell, a swampy valley where the indigenous Tortles were enslaved by a temple secretly run by a vampire. There were mysterious oozes (side effects of the vampire's experiments), a town of aristocratic slave-owning Tieflings, gnolls toughs enforcing social dominance, and a hidden fortress with a magically slumbering Tortles resistanceThe players knew if they just went in swords swinging to free the Tortles, they'd be enemies of the entire town, hunted down by dozens of gnolls and an angry vampire. So they took their time, freeing the resistance, forging magical weapons, seeding doubt in the Tieflings population, making duplicitous alliances with gnolls and the priesthood...It did come eventually to an epic battle at the top of the temple tower, but the real challenge was in all the hard work of gaining every advantage possible beforehand!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BookTenTiger, post: 8835213, member: 6685541"] I agree that challenge includes a risk of failure. I also think that challenge requires clear goals. To me, though, the greatest challenges in a campaign don't come from a single fight, but from overcoming greater difficulties. In fact, the "boss fights" in my campaigns are usually not challenging because the players have put so much work into planning, gathering resources, and coming in strong. And yet, overall, the adventure will still be recognized as a great challenge. For example, in my last campaign, the players came to Umber Dell, a swampy valley where the indigenous Tortles were enslaved by a temple secretly run by a vampire. There were mysterious oozes (side effects of the vampire's experiments), a town of aristocratic slave-owning Tieflings, gnolls toughs enforcing social dominance, and a hidden fortress with a magically slumbering Tortles resistance The players knew if they just went in swords swinging to free the Tortles, they'd be enemies of the entire town, hunted down by dozens of gnolls and an angry vampire. So they took their time, freeing the resistance, forging magical weapons, seeding doubt in the Tieflings population, making duplicitous alliances with gnolls and the priesthood... It did come eventually to an epic battle at the top of the temple tower, but the real challenge was in all the hard work of gaining every advantage possible beforehand! [/QUOTE]

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