Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Challenge, Optimization and Optional Rules
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Illithidbix" data-source="post: 7209735" data-attributes="member: 12283"><p>To some degree, Multiclassing is potentially more of a trap than helpful, with the exception of a handful of builds, but yes, some feats, if played well can be really quite strong. I actually believe the default array is expected rather than rolling.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think a bigger issue is the CR system and Encounter Builder is designed around a set of premises that don't actually apply to lots of gaming groups:</p><p></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>1)The Encounter Builder system seems mostly for newbie DMs to not accidentally TPK their similarly newbie players.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>If the players are experienced and knowledgeable about the rules and use this, then they'll punch above their weight. I presume most of the people who post on places like RPG.net and Enworld aren't their target audience in terms of experience.</p><p></p><p><strong>2)The players are expected to win.</strong></p><p>Sometimes easy to forget, but the Encounter Builder is designed to give defeatable challenges. Perhaps with more emphasis on "defeatable" than "challenge..." </p><p>This by definition is not a fair fight, since it's loaded for one side to triumph.</p><p></p><p><strong>3) It is also part of the “Standard Adventuring Day” that assumes more encounters than players often encounter</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>In my experience DMing, I don't think I ever threw my players up against a full adventuring day. So naturally they could go Nova and throw lots of resources into a fight.</p><p></p><p>Personally I can't see how a 1st-3rd level party could handle that many encounters myself, which I think is a far bigger problem.</p><p></p><p><strong>4) The actual DMG definitions of what “Weak”, “Medium”, “Hard” and esp. “Deadly” means might not be immediately what DMs assume.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Deadly is "risk of death" rather than "risk of TPK".</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>5) There is no set Wealth/Treasure/Magic Item guide that is assumed by the game or the Encounter Builder.</strong></p><p>Any amount of magic items put the party above the curve.</p><p>(I am still a little unsure if this remains the case with assuming the parties fighty types have access to magic weapons.</p><p>As a very rough guideline at 6th level Monks get Ki-Empowered Strikes and Moon Druids get Primal Strikes, and also looking at the monster builder in the DMG.... I'll start a separate thread about this)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I've used the Encounter Builder and I've had fun adventures with it but use them as guidelines and feel free to ramp up the difficulty, particularly if the players have lots of resources and won't need them so much later.</p><p></p><p>Basically groups are complaining about the game being too easy when it they are effectively playing it on easy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Illithidbix, post: 7209735, member: 12283"] To some degree, Multiclassing is potentially more of a trap than helpful, with the exception of a handful of builds, but yes, some feats, if played well can be really quite strong. I actually believe the default array is expected rather than rolling. I think a bigger issue is the CR system and Encounter Builder is designed around a set of premises that don't actually apply to lots of gaming groups: [B] 1)The Encounter Builder system seems mostly for newbie DMs to not accidentally TPK their similarly newbie players. [/B] If the players are experienced and knowledgeable about the rules and use this, then they'll punch above their weight. I presume most of the people who post on places like RPG.net and Enworld aren't their target audience in terms of experience. [B]2)The players are expected to win.[/B] Sometimes easy to forget, but the Encounter Builder is designed to give defeatable challenges. Perhaps with more emphasis on "defeatable" than "challenge..." This by definition is not a fair fight, since it's loaded for one side to triumph. [B]3) It is also part of the “Standard Adventuring Day” that assumes more encounters than players often encounter[/B] In my experience DMing, I don't think I ever threw my players up against a full adventuring day. So naturally they could go Nova and throw lots of resources into a fight. Personally I can't see how a 1st-3rd level party could handle that many encounters myself, which I think is a far bigger problem. [B]4) The actual DMG definitions of what “Weak”, “Medium”, “Hard” and esp. “Deadly” means might not be immediately what DMs assume.[/B] Deadly is "risk of death" rather than "risk of TPK". [B]5) There is no set Wealth/Treasure/Magic Item guide that is assumed by the game or the Encounter Builder.[/B] Any amount of magic items put the party above the curve. (I am still a little unsure if this remains the case with assuming the parties fighty types have access to magic weapons. As a very rough guideline at 6th level Monks get Ki-Empowered Strikes and Moon Druids get Primal Strikes, and also looking at the monster builder in the DMG.... I'll start a separate thread about this) I've used the Encounter Builder and I've had fun adventures with it but use them as guidelines and feel free to ramp up the difficulty, particularly if the players have lots of resources and won't need them so much later. Basically groups are complaining about the game being too easy when it they are effectively playing it on easy. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Challenge, Optimization and Optional Rules
Top