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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 4502802" data-attributes="member: 3192">Actually, the Skill Challenge system is a hybrid of storytelling and game-playing with no role-playing whatsoever.&nbsp; You might act a little in between, but there is no role-playing going on here.&nbsp; Instead, this method is a game where one results in having to narrate their game choice selection to fit with the GM's story.&nbsp; As it is impossible to tell stories or to narrate while role-playing (or GMing for that matter), players stop playing when using this system.&nbsp; To illustrate, in the Skill Challenge game you choose any one of your skill &quot;choices&quot; and narrate what that choice means in the &quot;story&quot; the [strike]DM[/strike] Storyteller is jointly telling with you.&nbsp; It takes skill to come up with those stories, but the actual success or failure has nothing to do with your story, but it does have to do with your choice.&nbsp; The choice options are pre-determined by the Storyteller to have greater or lesser potential of success and the overall success (# of total success/failures needed) has absolutely nothing to do with the story at all.&nbsp; It's just judged &quot;tougher&quot; or &quot;weaker&quot; by the Storyteller based on how it difficult he wants the challenge to be.&nbsp; This of course has nothing to do with role-playing or role-playing games either, but that's perfectly fine.&nbsp; There is nothing wrongbadfun with that.&nbsp; Please merely understand that folks who like role-playing will not like it when such a thing is called &quot;role-playing&quot; so innaccurately.In an RPG with skills, one can open a door without a skill check by turning the knob, hack it down with some attack rolls, make several diplomacy checks to convince voices on the other side to open the door, or even roll to disbelieve the door is there at all.&nbsp; All these myriad of methods involve different amounts of potential checks, target number difficulties, successes, or failures as the role-players are being tested by a real world with real people and objects - not telling a story where the results need only be thematically interesting.&nbsp; In a game like this I think you mean it's a realism issue, not a role-playing one.All 3 of these are wonderful examples of narration for folks playing storytelling games.&nbsp; Again, in a RPG not a one of these examples would be acceptable.The 4E DMG is clear in its related design, it's just the design is one confusing storytelling games with RPGs.&nbsp; For an RPG, it is an ill fit.&nbsp; Bad design.&nbsp; The works you mention that it is supposedly derivative of are games which mix both RPG gaming with Storytelling.&nbsp; I would gather quite unknowingly.&nbsp; I think Justanobody wants to play an RPG that has RPG elements and is arguing for such.&nbsp; Saying Storytelling game elements are enough to satisfy him won't work.Again, telling someone who enjoys D&amp;D to not have anything but combat encounters if they don't like to play a storytelling game is disingenuous.&nbsp; As I mentioned above, there are countless ways to role-play characters outside of combat, if you are using a RPG system.&nbsp; Using the skill system without the misguided design of the &quot;Skill Challenges&quot; system would be a far better answer for any wanting to play the game as an RPG.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 4502802, member: 3192"] Actually, the Skill Challenge system is a hybrid of storytelling and game-playing with no role-playing whatsoever. You might act a little in between, but there is no role-playing going on here. Instead, this method is a game where one results in having to narrate their game choice selection to fit with the GM's story. As it is impossible to tell stories or to narrate while role-playing (or GMing for that matter), players stop playing when using this system. To illustrate, in the Skill Challenge game you choose any one of your skill "choices" and narrate what that choice means in the "story" the [strike]DM[/strike] Storyteller is jointly telling with you. It takes skill to come up with those stories, but the actual success or failure has nothing to do with your story, but it does have to do with your choice. The choice options are pre-determined by the Storyteller to have greater or lesser potential of success and the overall success (# of total success/failures needed) has absolutely nothing to do with the story at all. It's just judged "tougher" or "weaker" by the Storyteller based on how it difficult he wants the challenge to be. This of course has nothing to do with role-playing or role-playing games either, but that's perfectly fine. There is nothing wrongbadfun with that. Please merely understand that folks who like role-playing will not like it when such a thing is called "role-playing" so innaccurately. In an RPG with skills, one can open a door without a skill check by turning the knob, hack it down with some attack rolls, make several diplomacy checks to convince voices on the other side to open the door, or even roll to disbelieve the door is there at all. All these myriad of methods involve different amounts of potential checks, target number difficulties, successes, or failures as the role-players are being tested by a real world with real people and objects - not telling a story where the results need only be thematically interesting. In a game like this I think you mean it's a realism issue, not a role-playing one. All 3 of these are wonderful examples of narration for folks playing storytelling games. Again, in a RPG not a one of these examples would be acceptable. The 4E DMG is clear in its related design, it's just the design is one confusing storytelling games with RPGs. For an RPG, it is an ill fit. Bad design. The works you mention that it is supposedly derivative of are games which mix both RPG gaming with Storytelling. I would gather quite unknowingly. I think Justanobody wants to play an RPG that has RPG elements and is arguing for such. Saying Storytelling game elements are enough to satisfy him won't work. Again, telling someone who enjoys D&D to not have anything but combat encounters if they don't like to play a storytelling game is disingenuous. As I mentioned above, there are countless ways to role-play characters outside of combat, if you are using a RPG system. Using the skill system without the misguided design of the "Skill Challenges" system would be a far better answer for any wanting to play the game as an RPG. [/QUOTE]

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