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Message: <blockquote data-quote="justanobody" data-source="post: 4503395" data-attributes="member: 70778">You cannot use diplomacy on a door. You are just going to talk it into opening? Well this door the proper password does open it, but other than that no amount of discussion with the door, trying to anger it, or make it afraid of you will not. I would look at a player trying to use diplomacy on an inanimate object and reply simply: "Are you stupid?"Acrobatics might be a bit more feasible, but it seems maybe the door was built with intent to prevent things from getting in so easily. We are talking about dwarves that fashioned the mines and everything else within them, do they would not make something so easily broken by something that lives right outside the door. While you could jump about dodging tentacles, there is nothing that says your acrobatics will even cause the tentacle to reach the door, or fly in that direction, assuming it was making a smashing attempt at you int he first place.Arcana would allow you to read the magic runes to begin with. After that you would really need to solve the riddle. If Arcana provided that the runes and door were magicked by elves, then maybe you would try the elvish word for friend to open the door.Still you just need to pick the right skill. Obviously arcana is the right choice, or best choice for opening a magical object, and if you don't go into depth of what word to use, you can still just make a few arcana checks and get past the drivel that this riddle is and get inside the door quicker without having to screw with some riddle.That is why the skill checks were added to the game in this fashion for those that don't want to wait, but takes away from other players who might want to try to solve the riddle. Also as a DM it undermines the effort put into creating such if a player can just skate by with rolling some dice. The only person who could end up happy on all accounts is the one that rolled the dice to beat the DC for the skill checks, if that is how the door was opened. The other players and DM are left with little entertainment. I know a few people that would do just that, because they don't like puzzles or riddles, or non-combat.That is why you shouldn't challegene the stats to allow those types of players to take something away form others.Say your group has two heavy combat lovers, one shy person that likes riddles, and 2 people that like chitting and chatting with the locals. You have enough people to attempt the tasks without the dice, so work the group mechanic more than the roll mechanics. Leave out the roll mechanics save for the very last resort, and make it clear int he book, that the roll mechanic is there for the very last resort, but other things should be tried first.We know this to be true, but a lone person coming into D&D thinking they know what they are doing, only to be given a whole PHB worth of explanations and errata might not be too happy that the book didn't tell them this to begin with and made it appear you only needed to roll dice. It could completely change their outlook at the game and have it be something they may not enjoy after all when not done as presented in the book.I prefer to err on the side of caution with these things in regards to new players, and even older or lazy ones.Again, a single player need not be the one to complete the skill challenge so you can challenge the players, and rely on the other people in your group of players more than the dice.When combined with the rest of your post to define the storytelling aspect, I think that RPG elements is what he wants also, or he would be playing Vampire LARPs. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />You don't roll dice to get the merchant to bring his prices down using diplomacy skill. I as the DM am the merchant right now, so convince me why I should lower my prices. Haggle with me. Entertain the DM as much as the DM entertains you as a player. Don't make the DM just someone that looks up rules in the books, and rolls for you enemy during combats. Let the DM enjoy the game too.Anyone spouting this off, please try using something else to defend your position. I assert that picking the skill to roll for IS a way to use the skill. Otherwise you are not using the skill, but it is just sitting record with any modifiers on your character sheet. It is a minimalist approach.Please provide me with several examples from the PHB that tell otherwise how to use your skills without rolling dice to complete a skill challenge. Every passage I read keeps including "skills checks", which is dice rolling. Where does it describe the non-dice rolling method to complete a skill challenge?It is all about how the system works. Powers target defense. Inanimate objects don't have these will defenses, or whatever to use these powers. There is no equivalent for every power in the form of a ritual. The rules don't even allow for it. Don't you think that maybe Gandalf would have tried blasting the door down if he were a frustrated D&D player's character? He didn't in the stroy because he thought the dwarves to be alive inside, and didn't want to destroy their property. Hindsight is of course 20/20 for both the read and the characters of the story after that point.It is how you can approach the situation or challenge, with what is provided. The nature of codifying everything in a format where you have a rule for everything with little to no give on certain thing means you have fewer choices to take when trying to do something.It is like the old debate about using Magic Missle on a door. Some claims it works because it does damage to the target, while others claim being magic in nature their is no physical force to damage the door. Now there are more things like that in 4th, which limits the things you can try in challenges. The more you have defined, the less there is to do freely.Why couldn't you open a door with a fireball in NWN? Because it wasn't programed as such and building were indestructible objects such as most inanimate objects. You could with a good scripter cut some fire wood form a tree, but the tree will remain you cannot cut it down, climb it, etc. D&D shouldn't have restrictions on what you can try like a computer does, because a computer does not have the capabilities of the human imagination.That same fireball in PnP could easily blast away a door. This is why you have less when you define more. Tell me how you can use the new fireball outside of combat and for some skill challenge using it with its stat block, and the way powers work?</blockquote>

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