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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 4505536" data-attributes="member: 3192">I'm not saying 4E isn't a role-playing game.&nbsp; I'm saying Skill Challenges don't include anything that could be termed role-playing by dictionary definitions.Right, you can use skills in 4E to resolve actions.&nbsp; Just not the Skill Challenge system where storytelling rights are resolved instead.The door is a fiction like an idea is a fiction.&nbsp; And it is real as much as any idea is real.&nbsp; It isn't a fiction as one defines fiction in relation to a story.&nbsp; An imaginary door (or any imaginary object for that matter) in and of itself is not a story.&nbsp; An imaginary door can be used in the telling of a story, but when using it in role-play this never happens.&nbsp; As you cannot tell a story through role-play.I think he's saying rightly that the storytelling element could be removed from the Skill Challenge system and the game playing would not change.&nbsp; What story you tell only becomes important if the DM changes the difficulty checks because of it.&nbsp; Saying the DMG requires one to tell a story alongside playing the Skill Challenge game/element is technically correct and by the book.&nbsp; It's only significant if you want to tell stories.&nbsp; It isn't significant to those wanting to role-play those portion of the game and not tell it as a story.True.&nbsp; I take back my assertion.&nbsp; It is possible Justanobody is using the Skill Challenge system mistakenly thinking he is still doing combat.&nbsp; Or is using it and is unsatisfied because he does not like any kind of non-combat play.&nbsp; I suspect differently, but you are right here.I think you're right here too, but please understand this can be confusing to people used to role-playing out of combat.&nbsp; When role-playing, there are no rules for the players to follow other than: &quot;role-play your character&quot;, the dice have nothing to do with what the players do.&nbsp; Where in a storytelling game the rule is &quot;tell a story&quot;, but only when the dice (or some other mechanic) give you authority to do so.&nbsp; It can be confusing when a single game switches back and forth between these two actions.&nbsp; Especially one with a history of traditionally just role-playing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 4505536, member: 3192"] I'm not saying 4E isn't a role-playing game. I'm saying Skill Challenges don't include anything that could be termed role-playing by dictionary definitions. Right, you can use skills in 4E to resolve actions. Just not the Skill Challenge system where storytelling rights are resolved instead. The door is a fiction like an idea is a fiction. And it is real as much as any idea is real. It isn't a fiction as one defines fiction in relation to a story. An imaginary door (or any imaginary object for that matter) in and of itself is not a story. An imaginary door can be used in the telling of a story, but when using it in role-play this never happens. As you cannot tell a story through role-play. I think he's saying rightly that the storytelling element could be removed from the Skill Challenge system and the game playing would not change. What story you tell only becomes important if the DM changes the difficulty checks because of it. Saying the DMG requires one to tell a story alongside playing the Skill Challenge game/element is technically correct and by the book. It's only significant if you want to tell stories. It isn't significant to those wanting to role-play those portion of the game and not tell it as a story. True. I take back my assertion. It is possible Justanobody is using the Skill Challenge system mistakenly thinking he is still doing combat. Or is using it and is unsatisfied because he does not like [I]any kind[/I] of non-combat play. I suspect differently, but you are right here. I think you're right here too, but please understand this can be confusing to people used to role-playing out of combat. When role-playing, there are no rules for the players to follow other than: "role-play your character", the dice have nothing to do with what the players do. Where in a storytelling game the rule is "tell a story", but only when the dice (or some other mechanic) give you authority to do so. It can be confusing when a single game switches back and forth between these two actions. Especially one with a history of traditionally just role-playing. [/QUOTE]

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