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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 4508684" data-attributes="member: 3192">After 2nd Edition D&amp;D and games like World of Darkness claiming they are &quot;storytelling games&quot; I can absolutely understand why there are a generation of gamers looking for stories in their games.&nbsp; I say things like &quot;You cannot role-play to tell a story any more than you can live to tell a story&quot; because I believe I am expressing the truth.&nbsp; I'm on board with you here to help anyone who wishes to tell a story or tell a better one.&nbsp; I'm not here to claim badwrongfun or &quot;that's not an RPG&quot;.&nbsp; If it has role-playing in it, fine by me.&nbsp; (heck, even Burning Empires which seems to call 3 hours of generating a world &quot;role-playing&quot; in the same breath it calls, um, acting? out a character in a scenario for the last 30 minutes &quot;role-playing&quot;.)If 4E's combat system isn't telling a good story for you, scratch that itch for your kind of fun, than maybe narrational story rights are the way to go?&nbsp; But the more the rules are something the players follow vs. rules the PCs follow to model a world, the less real successfully overcoming any challenges endeavored in that world will be.&nbsp; IOW, &quot;beating&quot; the monster is not the same fun when you can &quot;just say&quot; you beat the monster.But yes, you can absolutely mix elements of storytelling and role-playing in a game as 4E Skill Challenges and 4E combat do. Honestly, I don't have a beef with anyone who wants to do theatre acting, or story telling, or whatever.&nbsp; I really don't have a problem with the Indie Community either.&nbsp; My only issue here is the widespread repetition of false statements because of a obviously erroneous gaming theory.&nbsp; I mean, really.&nbsp; Every &quot;What is a Role-playing Game&quot; website in the last 5 years has changed its' definition to:&nbsp; All RPGs are Collaborative Storytelling Games.&nbsp; If you do agree with my posts, I'd hope you see what hogwash this is.&nbsp; Not the people.&nbsp; Just the claim.I'll get to the rest of your post in a second.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 4508684, member: 3192"] After 2nd Edition D&D and games like World of Darkness claiming they are "storytelling games" I can absolutely understand why there are a generation of gamers looking for stories in their games. I say things like "You cannot role-play to tell a story any more than you can live to tell a story" because I believe I am expressing the truth. I'm on board with you here to help anyone who wishes to tell a story or tell a better one. I'm not here to claim badwrongfun or "that's not an RPG". If it has role-playing in it, fine by me. (heck, even Burning Empires which seems to call 3 hours of generating a world "role-playing" in the same breath it calls, um, acting? out a character in a scenario for the last 30 minutes "role-playing".) If 4E's combat system isn't telling a good story for you, scratch that itch for your kind of fun, than maybe narrational story rights are the way to go? But the more the rules are something the players follow vs. rules the PCs follow to model a world, the less real successfully overcoming any challenges endeavored in that world will be. IOW, "beating" the monster is not the same fun when you can "just say" you beat the monster. But yes, you can absolutely mix elements of storytelling and role-playing in a game as 4E Skill Challenges and 4E combat do. Honestly, I don't have a beef with anyone who wants to do theatre acting, or story telling, or whatever. I really don't have a problem with the Indie Community either. My only issue here is the widespread repetition of false statements because of a obviously erroneous gaming theory. I mean, really. Every "What is a Role-playing Game" website in the last 5 years has changed its' definition to: [B][U]All RPGs are Collaborative Storytelling Games[/U][/B]. If you do agree with my posts, I'd hope you see what hogwash this is. Not the people. Just the claim. I'll get to the rest of your post in a second. [/QUOTE]

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