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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4510065" data-attributes="member: 22779">Because a map is an abstraction.  The physical simulation, while obviously still an incomplete representation, is far, far closer to the actual reality than stick figures on a white board.  Not all simulations are created equally of course.  Some are far more detailed than others.  The more detailed a simulation is, the closer it comes to actually being what is modeled.  It's not a case of either/or, but rather a spectrum from reality to completely abstract.The skill challenge is a simulation.  You are attempting to simulate an event using rules other than the combat ones.  Those rules allow the player, with the DM's permission, to affect minor changes to the scenery.  One does not preclude the other.  The player must still succeed in the skill challenge or fail as the case may be.  However, the parameters of the situation are not entirely in the hands of the DM.So, only the things you've written down before the game starts may be used?  No DM may ever extemporize any details of the setting during play?  That's ridiculous.  DM's do it all the time.  DM's are allowed to determine what is or is not in their world every second of the day.  And, while changing an existing detail without justification is bad DMing, adding something certainly isn't.  I may not say that there is a badger hole in the hill, but, it's not unreasonable to think that there might be one there.Does it really matter who places that badger hole?This is a completely false assertion.  The old 007 game back in the 80's had a hero point mechanic where you as the player could spend a hero point to add in setting elements that were in keeping with the genre.  The game actually ENCOURAGED players to do so.Trying to tell me that I'm suddenly not role playing simply because I have limited authorial control over setting elements that are not detailed by the GM is laughable.Again with the entirely false assertion.  Do you allow players to make backgrounds for their characters?  Why?  You are allowing them to have limited authorial control over the setting, therefore they are no longer role playing.  Heck, do you allow them to choose their race or class?  How is that any different?  If I choose to play an elf, I am affecting the setting.  Thus, I must not be roleplaying?But, even with limited authorial control, you still have success.  At no point can you say, "I win" as a player.  You might, at best, be able to give yourself a chance of winning, but, that's entirely up the DM and still not a guaranteed success.</blockquote>

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