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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 4516236" data-attributes="member: 3192">Actually, I was differentiating between would and could, (WWMCD &quot;what would my character do&quot;&quot;) acting and role-playing &quot;what can my character do?&quot;&nbsp; The third option is storytelling, probably with some acting thrown in so it can be considered at least some kind of role-play, and maybe some modeled challenges to swap between the two forms.&nbsp; Perhaps how far one is willing to go away from challenging the Player, modeling the role-playing challenges, is the matter of degree for your definition?&nbsp; For me, they are two different things activities in one game.I don't see many who would disagree with justanobody outside our hobby's community.&nbsp; As I differentiated above, &quot;predetermined nature&quot; is only meaningful in acting (or perhaps through defining some personality characteristics as that kind of nature can be more and less defined).&nbsp; Role-playing is all about what is possible for the Player to accomplish, while in the role. Telling a story that fits an accurate portrayal of what a PC can do is different than role-playing. Also, just because a portion of background is undefined (as in your Paladin example), it doesn't mean defining that background in the course of a gaming session is playing the character.&nbsp; Perhaps that focus of attention is the boundary for what counts as &quot;staying in character&quot; by your definition?There is no &quot;authorial&quot; role when role-playing.&nbsp; You would have to go back to &quot;me, authoring my choices in life&quot; to fit the definition.&nbsp; A Player telling a story with their PC as the focus and then fitting it into what other stories have come before is round-robin storytelling (with some assignation of characters thrown in).&nbsp; It doesn't add up to &quot;staying in-character&quot; from a role-playing POV, but does from a storytelling POV.I think Illusionism and Participationalism are forms of storytelling in an RPG.&nbsp; I think plot lined adventures admit to that style's popularity.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think hybrid games mix the two activities for Players and may call themselves RPGs like Poker is often called a bluffing game.&nbsp; Unfortunately, their &quot;philosophy&quot; used to count as role-playing completely role-playing games only confuses the hobby community by altering our vocabulary.&nbsp; Further, I disagree with games calling themselves RPGs when they have no role-playing at all in them.&nbsp; That's probably few of the Indie games, but at least we two can agree certain definitions of role-playing (a.k.a. storytelling) are inaccurate.&nbsp; I'm not really looking to plumb the depths of what qualifies as both storytelling &amp; role-playing for your definition here.&nbsp; By my own account, I think the two don't crossover (it takes an outside 3rd-party like a referee).&nbsp; I assume it is a matter of degree for you like CRPGs discerning between an RPG (widely-focused simulation, MMORPGs), an Adventure game (probably participationalism here, like later Zelda games), and an Action Game (narrowly-focused simulation, like Duck Hunt).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 4516236, member: 3192"] Actually, I was differentiating between would and could, (WWMCD "what would my character do"") acting and role-playing "what can my character do?" The third option is storytelling, probably with some acting thrown in so it can be considered at least some kind of role-play, and maybe some modeled challenges to swap between the two forms. Perhaps how far one is willing to go away from challenging the Player, modeling the role-playing challenges, is the matter of degree for your definition? For me, they are two different things activities in one game. I don't see many who would disagree with justanobody outside our hobby's community. As I differentiated above, "predetermined nature" is only meaningful in acting (or perhaps through defining some personality characteristics as that kind of nature can be more and less defined). Role-playing is all about what is possible for the Player to accomplish, while in the role. Telling a story that fits an accurate portrayal of what a PC can do is different than role-playing. Also, just because a portion of background is undefined (as in your Paladin example), it doesn't mean defining that background in the course of a gaming session is playing the character. Perhaps that focus of attention is the boundary for what counts as "staying in character" by your definition? There is no "authorial" role when role-playing. You would have to go back to "me, authoring my choices in life" to fit the definition. A Player telling a story with their PC as the focus and then fitting it into what other stories have come before is round-robin storytelling (with some assignation of characters thrown in). It doesn't add up to "staying in-character" from a role-playing POV, but does from a storytelling POV. I think Illusionism and Participationalism are forms of storytelling in an RPG. I think plot lined adventures admit to that style's popularity. I think hybrid games mix the two activities for Players and may call themselves RPGs like Poker is often called a bluffing game. Unfortunately, their "philosophy" used to count as role-playing completely role-playing games only confuses the hobby community by altering our vocabulary. Further, I disagree with games calling themselves RPGs when they have no role-playing at all in them. That's probably few of the Indie games, but at least we two can agree certain definitions of role-playing (a.k.a. storytelling) are inaccurate. I'm not really looking to plumb the depths of what qualifies as both storytelling & role-playing for your definition here. By my own account, I think the two don't crossover (it takes an outside 3rd-party like a referee). I assume it is a matter of degree for you like CRPGs discerning between an RPG (widely-focused simulation, MMORPGs), an Adventure game (probably participationalism here, like later Zelda games), and an Action Game (narrowly-focused simulation, like Duck Hunt). [/QUOTE]

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