Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Challenge with a good group
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gadget" data-source="post: 7280342" data-attributes="member: 23716"><p>With the understanding that you know your players and their preferences best, every table has a slightly different social contract, and "internet advice" can only go so far, here are some thoughts.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The real culprit here (if indeed one subscribes to the notion there <em>is</em> a culprit), is GWM/SS. Bless is a good spell. Those feats can, in some situations, make it super.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>If </em>your group is more of the optimizing/Min-max variety, the default array/point buy tends to be more 'balanced' and fair. But this is can be a 'feel' thing for your group as well.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This can largely be a feel thing as well. The base game is supposedly balanced without taking feats + multiclass into consideration (or magic items), which may require more work on the DM's part to create challenging encounters, particularly as levels rise. IMHO, the feat design is not particularly well done, and they--along with multi-classing--feel kind of 'thrown in' at the end with a little bit of "These are optional, us at your own risk" type of feel. I've personally taken some of the feats and re-purposed them as abilities in Magic Items/weapons discovered in the game to some success. That said, many players feel very strongly that feats in particular given them the ability to customize their character and would be disgruntled at their omission. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As mentioned above, many like the 'build' option that multiclassing (and feats) offer them to get just the right character they want to play. In my experience, it usually turns into a min/max meta-game of optimization, which some might enjoy. But if the DM is not on board with that style can make encounter design more difficult. Many games try to enforce strong "in-story" reasons for multiclassing with varying degrees of success, but it depends on your group.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is what many DM's do almost unconsciously, and it works to a certain point. It is understood that, as the levels rise, the more "inaccurate" the CR is anyway; due to the number of synergies and combinations and permutations available to the PCs </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would be loath to turn friends away, but each group and DM has the limit to the amount of overhead they can handle I guess. This does seem rather extreme unless you are approaching 7+ players.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Lastly, this is not an indictment of the system or any style of gaming, at all. I just want more chances for players to feel the heat and do tactical retreats/high five one another after successes. </p><p></p><p>I want success to be likely, failure to be very possible with the dial or likelihood being moved by choice, incredibly good and bad die rolling excepted.</p><p></p><p>The plan would be to tell people up front combat is a "war game" and to treat it as such. In wargames poor reconnaissance and overconfidence can lead to custer's last stand. Don't be that guy!</p></blockquote><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Gadget, post: 7280342, member: 23716"] With the understanding that you know your players and their preferences best, every table has a slightly different social contract, and "internet advice" can only go so far, here are some thoughts. The real culprit here (if indeed one subscribes to the notion there [I]is[/I] a culprit), is GWM/SS. Bless is a good spell. Those feats can, in some situations, make it super. [I]If [/I]your group is more of the optimizing/Min-max variety, the default array/point buy tends to be more 'balanced' and fair. But this is can be a 'feel' thing for your group as well. This can largely be a feel thing as well. The base game is supposedly balanced without taking feats + multiclass into consideration (or magic items), which may require more work on the DM's part to create challenging encounters, particularly as levels rise. IMHO, the feat design is not particularly well done, and they--along with multi-classing--feel kind of 'thrown in' at the end with a little bit of "These are optional, us at your own risk" type of feel. I've personally taken some of the feats and re-purposed them as abilities in Magic Items/weapons discovered in the game to some success. That said, many players feel very strongly that feats in particular given them the ability to customize their character and would be disgruntled at their omission. As mentioned above, many like the 'build' option that multiclassing (and feats) offer them to get just the right character they want to play. In my experience, it usually turns into a min/max meta-game of optimization, which some might enjoy. But if the DM is not on board with that style can make encounter design more difficult. Many games try to enforce strong "in-story" reasons for multiclassing with varying degrees of success, but it depends on your group. This is what many DM's do almost unconsciously, and it works to a certain point. It is understood that, as the levels rise, the more "inaccurate" the CR is anyway; due to the number of synergies and combinations and permutations available to the PCs I would be loath to turn friends away, but each group and DM has the limit to the amount of overhead they can handle I guess. This does seem rather extreme unless you are approaching 7+ players. Lastly, this is not an indictment of the system or any style of gaming, at all. I just want more chances for players to feel the heat and do tactical retreats/high five one another after successes. I want success to be likely, failure to be very possible with the dial or likelihood being moved by choice, incredibly good and bad die rolling excepted. The plan would be to tell people up front combat is a "war game" and to treat it as such. In wargames poor reconnaissance and overconfidence can lead to custer's last stand. Don't be that guy![/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Challenge with a good group
Top